My Hero Ideas (2)

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My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:02 pm

Since the first thread for my hero ideas is buried, and I don't really feel inclined to edit all of the heroes in it to fit this posting style, I've just decided to make a new thread. Also, feel free to suggest a different thread name, as I realize that this one is pretty boring, but I can't think of another name that isn't equally generic or worse.

  • All measurements are based off the assumption that a Bloodshell is approximately 3.5 meters wide.
  • The heroes will be arranged in order of oldest at the bottom with the newest at the top to avoid excessive scrolling.
  • 'S' shall be the abbreviation for seconds.

And now, on to the heroes!

Lazarus the Dreamer

Once a promising apprentice of the Dream Wizard Order, Lazarus was cursed by a witch and cast into an eternal slumber. Contrary to what one might expect however, he still proves to be an asset which we can rely on; in fact he may be even more powerful now, due to his perpetual coma forcing him to be exposed to his dreams 24/7, allowing him to amass an ever-growing knowledge of the very realm of magic he has dabbled in for most of his life. That witch should have thought twice before using her sleeping spell on that apprentice! (He is now an adult; it's been several years since the curse.)

HP: 180
Armor: None
Magic Resist.: None
Damage: Varies
Attack Speed: V. Slow (4s)
Range: Great
Movement Speed: Average (A portal to the Dreamscape opens underneath him, and a mass of tentacles pulls him into it. After a few seconds, the portal opens elsewhere and deposits him where you selected.)
Regeneration: 40/s
Respawn: 25s

Appearance: An elvish man wearing a blue wizard robe with pictures of eyeballs all over it. He is asleep, and as such has the same sleeping animation that a Slumber Arrow produces. (The little blue z's that appear over the afflicted unit's head. He just sleeps on the ground, BTW. And his position changes when he's moved so it isn't too boring. At the beginning of the level, he is brought to the battlefield by servants carrying him on a stretcher.)

Secondaries:

Lazarus has an idiosyncratic base attack which varies in damage and effect in consideration of different numbers of enemies:

  • In the attack he summons a spirit which creates a large explosion (4.5 meters) if 3 or more units are in range of it, which deals 30-80 AoE True Damage and puts each enemy caught in the blast to sleep for half a second.
  • If only 2 units are in range, then the spirit shoots out a beam which splits into two beams, intensifying the damage that the attack deals due to the magic being less diluted to deal damage to more enemies at once, that deal 70-100 True Damage each and cast their victims into slumber for a full second.
  • If only 1 unit is in range to be targeted by the attack, then all of the energy is unleashed in a massive attack which deals 190-260 True Damage and puts its target to sleep for 2 seconds.

Abilities:

Astral Projection (CD: 10s)(Cost: 1/1/1): Lazarus's soul is temporarily severed from his body as it passes through up to 5 enemies, slowing them by 30/40/50% for 4 seconds while simultaneously collecting their dreams (one from each enemy), which contribute 5/10/15% to the stats of the next Nightmarish Manifestation. Can stack infinitely.

Nightmarish Manifestation (CD: 30s)(Cost: 1/2/3): Lazarus creates a towering spirit of green and blue ghostly flames. This creature lasts for 8/12/20s. It has the following stats and abilities, the former of which can be altered by the buff resulting from Astral Projection:

HP: 320
Resistances: 15% of each
Damage: 24-32 True Damage (Single target melee)
Attack Speed: Average (0.75s)

~It can perform a flashy special attack every 6s which has a 15% chance to instantly disintegrate its opponent, and if not then it deals 50-75 True Damage.
~Its fiery aura afflicts nearby enemies with a burn that deals 10 True DPS for 3s. Its opponent is constantly afflicted with this as long as it is fighting the Manifestation.

Whispers in the Night (CD: 24s)(Cost: 3/3/3): Lazarus creates a rune on on the path in front of him that fills the entire middle portion of the area. All enemies that walk over this symbol have a 10/15/20% chance to become afflicted with a unique effect that causes them to go insane and run wildly about, attacking any fellow enemies that they come into contact with, dealing double/triple/quadruple their normal damage. Enemies with this effect actively affecting them have a black skull symbol floating above their heads; they stay insane for the duration of the rune. The rune stays for 6/8/10s; if no enemies are afflicted with the insanity debuff during the entire duration of the rune, then it explodes into three magic missiles which home in on the three nearest enemies, no matter how far away they are, and inflicts them with the insanity effect for 10s.

Dream Beam (CD: 15s)(Cost: 2/2/2): A huge eyeball appears above Lazarus, which blasts all of the enemies directly in front of him with a beam that deals 80/100/120 True Damage and puts them to sleep for 1/1.5/2s. After the eye unleashes the beam, its eyelids close and it vanishes into nothingness.

Hero Spell - Darkness Rises (CD: 60s)(Cost: 3/4/4): As a stream of darkness envelopes the selected area, chaos ensues, though the player cannot be fully sure of its nature. Enemies in the area are permanently silenced; have a small chance (5/10/15%) to go permanently insane (like the insanity of WitN); each enemy takes 50/75/125 True Damage initially, while also being inflicted with a status effect that deals 5 True DPS permanently; and, if used on them, then all of Lazarus's abilities and attacks will have 1.5/2/2.5 times the effect on them that they would have on an unafflicted enemy. The area affected is 9/12/15 meters wide.

Quotes:

Lazarus's quotes are "spoken" in a soft, ethereal echo that is felt as much as it is heard.

"I dream, therefore I am." ( :hero:)
"Initiate extraction." (This is spoken generally when using Astral Projection and occasionally when moved.)
"Follow your dreams." (This quote is used when moving.)
"I am the dreamer of improbable dreams." (This is also used when moving.)
"Into the Dreamscape ..." ( :skull:)

References:

[+] SPOILER
  • Lazarus's first quote is a slight tweak on the famous quote of René Descartes which is this: "I think, therefore I am."
  • The second quote refers to the process of 'extraction' from Inception.
  • The third quote is a common saying used primarily as a form of encouragement.
  • The fourth quote is a piece of a quote from the Doctor of the sixth season in the Doctor Who television series.
  • The final quote can actually be taken as a reference for several things, but I shan't name them all. Just look it up.


Strategy:

Lazarus is extremely frail, the weakest of all heroes in terms of HP. Therefore, it is recommended to hide him behind barracks most of the time. His Hero Spell is extremely versatile, and its power is maximized with large groups of enemies. Beware of using it frivolously, however, for it has an extremely long CD. In fact, Lazarus is extremely versatile and can adapt to almost any situation, due to his abundance of True Damage and unique effects, plus he has a very good mix of single target and AoE attacks.
Last edited by Ninja on Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:14 am, edited 30 times in total.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:17 pm

Reserved for future heroes.
Last edited by Ninja on Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by The Kingmaker » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:40 pm

Well then, to work!

I really love the lore for the hero, and their appearance. The attack pattern and abilities seem very interesting and present an interesting playstyle for the player to work with and some interesting strategies.
Some of the powers are really cool, like the Eye Of Sauron beam, or the summoned creature that really compliments his playstyle by providing a sponge, but others seem a little... OTT for me. For instance the convulsions are cool in how they are synced, but the whole seizure with frothing is a little hyperbolic for me, but whatever.

I also would have upped the cooldown of the hero spell to around 38 or 40 personally, just because it can deal so much additional damage.

Beyond those qualms, I really like the whole concept and how it is carried out in the most part :D
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:10 pm

I could remove the frothing in the third power if you want; I was just trying to write an interesting description for the ability. What do you think of the 1st ability by the way? You didn't give much attention to it. Also, yeah, the Hero Spell was kind of just an afterthought for me, I didn't really think about how to balance it. I'll fix the cooldown. And most importantly, is the hero balanced?
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:31 pm

Added skill tiers that I missed and hero point costs. Also, it's really too bad that he has no way of talking; I had some really good quotes but then I remembered that he is constantly asleep. :/
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by The Kingmaker » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:28 pm

Have the quotes as an ethereal voice anyway! I was going to moan how we had little interaction with said hero through his lack of quotes.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:30 am

OK, then. I'll add them tomorrow.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:11 am

Ninja wrote:OK, then. I'll add them tomorrow.


When you do, put the references in a spoiler so that I can try to guess them. :) I'll my review tomorrow, after the first full update is made to the hero. ;)
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ruby_Hex » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:03 pm

Lazarus is terrifying and amazing! Attacking is a little complex...
(Eridan = bow, Ashbite = fire, Lazarus = summoning a bunch of crazy lovecraftian creatures to attack for him. See what I mean?)
None the less, it is still really cool!
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:08 am

Lazarus's quotes and references for them have been added. :D

@Ruby: Thanks! Also, that complexity was intentional, to bring out his maximum awesomeness potential. ;)
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:24 pm

*Cracks Knuckles*

Though this a matter of taste, I don't like his appearance at all. A teenage Elf with Z's coming from his head being carried around just isn't appealing to me. If I could explain why, then I would, but since I can't, I understand if you want to leave his design that way.

His stats bode well, as I like glass cannon heroes. Of course, not every hero should be one, but I like having excuses to deal massive damage, so having varied attacks with varied range is auspicious. :twisted:

His first attack seems OP even for a glass cannon. The AOE is far beyond that of any hero in the game. I would accept this if the hero's main unique trait was centred around him having a large AOE for his base attack, but since he has 2 other base attacks that do unique things, it feels forced, as if Lazarus is trying to be better than all other heroes out of pure uniqueness. Heroes should all strive to be perfect, not the best. If he had 3 attacks that cycled through something simpler, or just kept one of his 3 current attacks, it would still be a very special, stand-out base attack, without being excessive.

The first 2 of his regular attacks are OP despise his frailty. The AOE is too large for the tentacle creature, along with good damage that makes it capable of dealing hundreds of damage. It's almost an ability. The second attack has such powerful range, versatility, and good damage that it could also be a skill. Take my suggestion above to fix these. The final attack should have been the only one that he has for his base attack, since it fits the theme of sleep well by stunning enemies. Currently, stunning an enemy long enough to do the next attack is the only OP trait of the attack, but removing the other attacks and having him use the attack with more damage and a long enough recharge to not stun-lock enemies will make him really great in terms of base attacks.

His immunity to melee makes him even more OP, because he can swoop in between enemies unharmed and decimate them until,a ranged enemy comes near. It makes his fragility and slow speed hardly a weakness since he rarely has to retreat and rarely takes damage. This immunity should just be removed entirely; it's OP and another superfluous trait.

Astral Projection has a cool name and a decent effect. I appreciate that this one has a simple direct effect on enemies, but also contributes to another skill. It isn't bombastic like his base attacks while also synergistic with his other ability. The cooldowns are close to matching, but don't. After 30s, Lazarus will use AP, then use Nightmarish Manifestation immediately afterwards, potentially missing out on some stat boosts. This is alright, since it gives you an excuse to buff Nightmarish Infeststion and add 2 seconds to the cooldown to allow the skills to flow with each other better as well as be stronger. ;)

NM is an awesome skill. I've made skills of this sort before more than once, yet they're always awesome in the right context, like with this hero. The stats are pretty powerful, and the abilities are as well. It's like he summons a hero every half a minute. After reading it, I feel like this ability is OP to the point that making the cooldown 32s wouldn't be enough to balance it. It lasts for such a long time and is both tanky and has incredibly good DPS. Lower the damage or HP to 75% of what they are now, and leave the other the same. Then, make the fire aura last for a shorter amount of time, like 3s, and nerf the other skill to something less complex. It recharges in 4 seconds, which means that its base attack is getting interrupted very often, which can be annoying. Make the cooldown 6 seconds and have it deal a burst of damage, which would look a lot cooler as well as be a balanced, less frustrating skill.

Fitful Sleep reinforces my feeling that this hero is trying to be as complicated and unique as possible in a vain attempt to be superior to all others. It also has traits that don't work well with each other. For example, enemies can't have more than one affliction at a time, yet he sends out a total of 16 shockwaves. Many of those will be wasted, and the time spent sending all of those waves is time that could be spent relishing in the awesome, original ideas you have being used to slay monsters. The quick rate of each wave along with the percentage chance on multiple enemies is demanding for the game to lag or crash, as well. The effects themselves are really cool, at least. The first one is especially befitting of his theme of dreams and insanity, but the other skills lack the same aesthetics as Lazarus. Really, the ability could just have the first effect and would probably be better. I love the idea of making a couple of enemies go insane and killing each other. Considering the pure destruction that the skill could cause and how much damage each ability does, the cooldown does not match, making the abilty OP. I really feel like the skill could be just the first effect, but with less waves sent at a time and a lower chance to cause the effect to enemies, so that they don't all become afflicted. It would fit the theme more and the balance of the game.

Dream Beam is a breath of fresh air compared to these essays of skills. The effect it has works well with Lazarus's concept. Compared to Hammer Time, this skill is vastly superior, so the cooldown should be increased significantly. Otherwise, I like it.

Psychic Strike is a rip off of Lynn's Hero Spell, but outright stronger in damage, AOE, and even has a bonus effect that greatly surpass the attempt at balance by increasing the cooldown by 10 seconds. This power also lacks the dream-like effects that it ought to have as a skill of Lazarus. I really just dislike this power.

So, despite all of the issues I have, I still like Lazarus, though not that much. I like him for the ideas and the potential he has. I imagine him being better and see a truly epic hero worthy of KR. Right now, though, he's far from it, and has a lot of rebalancing to do to get there.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ook ook » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:53 pm

A sleeping hero cool idea :)
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:06 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:*Cracks Knuckles*


Why would you do that? Knuckles is the coolest Sonic-the-Hedgehog-related character. :cry:

Big Bad Bug wrote:Though this a matter of taste, I don't like his appearance at all. A teenage Elf with Z's coming from his head being carried around just isn't appealing to me. If I could explain why, then I would, but since I can't, I understand if you want to leave his design that way.


Well, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions that you have for the appearance; nothing is set in stone. I just thought that it would be funny if he had the z's
coming from his head, and naturally assumed that he would have to be lying down since he is asleep. :mrgreen:

Big Bad Bug wrote:His stats bode well, as I like glass cannon heroes. Of course, not every hero should be one, but I like having excuses to deal massive damage, so having varied attacks with varied range is auspicious. :twisted:

His first attack seems OP even for a glass cannon. The AOE is far beyond that of any hero in the game. I would accept this if the hero's main unique trait was centered around him having a large AOE for his base attack, but since he has 2 other base attacks that do unique things, it feels forced, as if Lazarus is trying to be better than all other heroes out of pure uniqueness. Heroes should all strive to be perfect, not the best. If he had 3 attacks that cycled through something simpler, or just kept one of his 3 current attacks, it would still be a very special, stand-out base attack, without being excessive.

The first 2 of his regular attacks are OP despise his frailty. The AOE is too large for the tentacle creature, along with good damage that makes it capable of dealing hundreds of damage. It's almost an ability. The second attack has such powerful range, versatility, and good damage that it could also be a skill. Take my suggestion above to fix these. The final attack should have been the only one that he has for his base attack, since it fits the theme of sleep well by stunning enemies. Currently, stunning an enemy long enough to do the next attack is the only OP trait of the attack, but removing the other attacks and having him use the attack with more damage and a long enough recharge to not stun-lock enemies will make him really great in terms of base attacks.

His immunity to melee makes him even more OP, because he can swoop in between enemies unharmed and decimate them until,a ranged enemy comes near. It makes his fragility and slow speed hardly a weakness since he rarely has to retreat and rarely takes damage. This immunity should just be removed entirely; it's OP and another superfluous trait.


I'm getting kind of mixed responses here, so I'll just ask: would you rather that I change the attack pattern altogether to a single unique attack rather than a cycle, or that I just nerf the stuff that I've already written. Keep in mind that I want Lazarus to have an emphasis on versatility above all else. Also, what do you mean by saying that "heroes should strive to be perfect, not the best"? If a hero truly achieves perfection, then he will be the best hero, perhaps not in terms of power, but definitely the best when being considered from an unbiased perspective of game-balance and overall aesthetics. ;)

About the stunning attack, it was actually designed to overlap with the other two attacks purposefully, but I guess I went a little overboard with the previous attacks, which kind of denied it the privilege of being balanced anyways. :lol:

And yes, I figured that the melee immunity would be OP, I just couldn't picture any way for a sleeping dude to have a fight with someone. Maybe one of the servants could attack for him?

Big Bad Bug wrote:Astral Projection has a cool name and a decent effect. I appreciate that this one has a simple direct effect on enemies, but also contributes to another skill. It isn't bombastic like his base attacks while also synergistic with his other ability. The cooldowns are close to matching, but don't. After 30s, Lazarus will use AP, then use Nightmarish Manifestation immediately afterwards, potentially missing out on some stat boosts. This is alright, since it gives you an excuse to buff Nightmarish Manifestation and add 2 seconds to the cooldown to allow the skills to flow with each other better as well as be stronger. ;)


Matching the cooldowns was actually my intent, and I still don't see how they don't do so. After 30 seconds, Lazarus will have used 3 APs, and then will immediately use NM, which would have its stats buffed by 45% as a result. (If the player manages Lazarus well enough to use the ability just as it reloads, that is.)

Big Bad Bug wrote:NM is an awesome skill. I've made skills of this sort before more than once, yet they're always awesome in the right context, like with this hero. The stats are pretty powerful, and the abilities are as well. It's like he summons a hero every half a minute. After reading it, I feel like this ability is OP to the point that making the cooldown 32s wouldn't be enough to balance it. It lasts for such a long time and is both tanky and has incredibly good DPS. Lower the damage or HP to 75% of what they are now, and leave the other the same. Then, make the fire aura last for a shorter amount of time, like 3s, and nerf the other skill to something less complex. It recharges in 4 seconds, which means that its base attack is getting interrupted very often, which can be annoying. Make the cooldown 6 seconds and have it deal a burst of damage, which would look a lot cooler as well as be a balanced, less frustrating skill.


I'll implement your other suggestions found here, but may I ask how the first ability of the creature is complex first? It seems pretty simple to me; it's maybe not so simple to program, but certainly easily understandable.

Big Bad Bug wrote:Fitful Sleep reinforces my feeling that this hero is trying to be as complicated and unique as possible in a vain attempt to be superior to all others. It also has traits that don't work well with each other. For example, enemies can't have more than one affliction at a time, yet he sends out a total of 16 shockwaves. Many of those will be wasted, and the time spent sending all of those waves is time that could be spent relishing in the awesome, original ideas you have being used to slay monsters. The quick rate of each wave along with the percentage chance on multiple enemies is demanding for the game to lag or crash, as well. The effects themselves are really cool, at least. The first one is especially befitting of his theme of dreams and insanity, but the other skills lack the same aesthetics as Lazarus. Really, the ability could just have the first effect and would probably be better. I love the idea of making a couple of enemies go insane and killing each other. Considering the pure destruction that the skill could cause and how much damage each ability does, the cooldown does not match, making the abilty OP. I really feel like the skill could be just the first effect, but with less waves sent at a time and a lower chance to cause the effect to enemies, so that they don't all become afflicted. It would fit the theme more and the balance of the game.


Well, sometimes I just feel like that as long as something is cool, then the more complex it is, the better. I'm sorry if some of that perspective overflowed into this hero; I'll try to remedy the problem as best I can. If you want to remove this ability altogether and replace with something else, then I can, because I always make sure that I have back-up abilities just in case. That way I have a veritably large pool of ideas to draw on when conceptualizing. 8-)

Big Bad Bug wrote:Dream Beam is a breath of fresh air compared to these essays of skills. The effect it has works well with Lazarus's concept. Compared to Hammer Time, this skill is vastly superior, so the cooldown should be increased significantly. Otherwise, I like it.


Good, I shall remedy the problem with a CD increase of 3 seconds. Is that acceptable? :)

Big Bad Bug wrote:Psychic Strike is a rip off of Lynn's Hero Spell, but outright stronger in damage, AOE, and even has a bonus effect that greatly surpass the attempt at balance by increasing the cooldown by 10 seconds. This power also lacks the dream-like effects that it ought to have as a skill of Lazarus. I really just dislike this power.


This ability was more of an afterthought because I had no more ideas at the time of Lazarus's creation. I recently had an idea for a better ability, and I've been itching to replace this one.

Big Bad Bug wrote:So, despite all of the issues I have, I still like Lazarus, though not that much. I like him for the ideas and the potential he has. I imagine him being better and see a truly epic hero worthy of KR. Right now, though, he's far from it, and has a lot of rebalancing to do to get there.


Then let the rebalancing commence! :hero:

EDIT: Did you like his quotes? How many of them did you guess the references of? :)

@Ook Ook: Thanks!
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:46 pm

Thanks for taking the criticism so well, Ninja! :D I was worried for some reason that too much criticism at once would make you become contentious or apprehensive. I had nothing to worry about, though; you're very level-headed. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:*Cracks Knuckles*


Why would you do that? Knuckles is the coolest Sonic-the-Hedgehog-related character. :cry:


I cracked his back for him. He slept wrong last night, so I remedied the stiffness for him. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:Though this a matter of taste, I don't like his appearance at all. A teenage Elf with Z's coming from his head being carried around just isn't appealing to me. If I could explain why, then I would, but since I can't, I understand if you want to leave his design that way.


Well, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions that you have for the appearance; nothing is set in stone. I just thought that it would be funny if he had the z's
coming from his head, and naturally assumed that he would have to be lying down since he is asleep. :mrgreen:


Whoa, what happened to your post? :? :lol:

The Z's are cartoony, which I don't mind because Kingdom Rush is a cartoony franchise. My issue is with the fact that he's a teenage Elf, and sleeping on a bed carried by others. The former makes me think of Twilight and other angsty, annoying YA fictional world, and the latter seems too similar to King Denas. I like King Denas, but that quirk seemed personal for him, though I understand the need to move him since he's asleep. Maybe you could have an older Elf cursed into slumber, who subconsciously fights enemies, with his magic levitating him around to fight enemies. He could keep his immunity to melee by being a flying hero. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:His stats bode well, as I like glass cannon heroes. Of course, not every hero should be one, but I like having excuses to deal massive damage, so having varied attacks with varied range is auspicious. :twisted:

His first attack seems OP even for a glass cannon. The AOE is far beyond that of any hero in the game. I would accept this if the hero's main unique trait was centered around him having a large AOE for his base attack, but since he has 2 other base attacks that do unique things, it feels forced, as if Lazarus is trying to be better than all other heroes out of pure uniqueness. Heroes should all strive to be perfect, not the best. If he had 3 attacks that cycled through something simpler, or just kept one of his 3 current attacks, it would still be a very special, stand-out base attack, without being excessive.

The first 2 of his regular attacks are OP despite his frailty. The AOE is too large for the tentacle creature, along with good damage that makes it capable of dealing hundreds of damage. It's almost an ability. The second attack has such powerful range, versatility, and good damage that it could also be a skill. Take my suggestion above to fix these. The final attack should have been the only one that he has for his base attack, since it fits the theme of sleep well by stunning enemies. Currently, stunning an enemy long enough to do the next attack is the only OP trait of the attack, but removing the other attacks and having him use the attack with more damage and a long enough recharge to not stun-lock enemies will make him really great in terms of base attacks.

His immunity to melee makes him even more OP, because he can swoop in between enemies unharmed and decimate them until,a ranged enemy comes near. It makes his fragility and slow speed hardly a weakness since he rarely has to retreat and rarely takes damage. This immunity should just be removed entirely; it's OP and another superfluous trait.


I'm getting kind of mixed responses here, so I'll just ask: would you rather that I change the attack pattern altogether to a single unique attack rather than a cycle, or that I just nerf the stuff that I've already written. Keep in mind that I want Lazarus to have an emphasis on versatility above all else. Also, what do you mean by saying that "heroes should strive to be perfect, not the best"? If a hero truly achieves perfection, then he will be the best hero, perhaps not in terms of power, but definitely the best when being considered from an unbiased perspective of game-balance and overall aesthetics. ;)

About the stunning attack, it was actually designed to overlap with the other two attacks purposefully, but I guess I went a little overboard with the previous attacks, which kind of denied it the privilege of being balanced anyways. :lol:

And yes, I figured that the melee immunity would be OP, I just couldn't picture any way for a sleeping dude to have a fight with someone. Maybe one of the servants could attack for him?


A single unique attack would be better, as having something special would open to opportunity for him to split and focus damage, making him extremely versatile, more so than before since the cycle would make it harder to get the effect you want in a prime situation. ;) I could give suggestions, but I'm sure that you already have something better in mind. :)

What I meant about heroes striving towards perfection is that the goal should be to make them flawless, but not superior to others. A superior hero won't necessarily be perfect. Since there are multiple heroes in game, we of course want them all to be perfect, so we strive to make them all that way. If successful, all heroes will be equal, allowing players to not worry about balance and simply choose the heroes that fulfil the necessary role or have the most fun playstyle. :)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:Astral Projection has a cool name and a decent effect. I appreciate that this one has a simple direct effect on enemies, but also contributes to another skill. It isn't bombastic like his base attacks while also synergistic with his other ability. The cooldowns are close to matching, but don't. After 30s, Lazarus will use AP, then use Nightmarish Manifestation immediately afterwards, potentially missing out on some stat boosts. This is alright, since it gives you an excuse to buff Nightmarish Manifestation and add 2 seconds to the cooldown to allow the skills to flow with each other better as well as be stronger. ;)


Matching the cooldowns was actually my intent, and I still don't see how they don't do so. After 30 seconds, Lazarus will have used 3 APs, and then will immediately use NM, which would have its stats buffed by 45% as a result. (If the player manages Lazarus well enough to use the ability just as it reloads, that is.)


Is the effect of Astral Projection instantaneous? I imagined that the soul would travel to enemies, striking them with its body, afore disappearing upon the final hit. It would take some time to do that, during which Lazarus would execute NM before every stat bonus was collected. If the skill is executed in an instant, then the timing isn't an issue, but NM still needs a drastic nerf. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:NM is an awesome skill. I've made skills of this sort before more than once, yet they're always awesome in the right context, like with this hero. The stats are pretty powerful, and the abilities are as well. It's like he summons a hero every half a minute. After reading it, I feel like this ability is OP to the point that making the cooldown 32s wouldn't be enough to balance it. It lasts for such a long time and is both tanky and has incredibly good DPS. Lower the damage or HP to 75% of what they are now, and leave the other the same. Then, make the fire aura last for a shorter amount of time, like 3s, and nerf the other skill to something less complex. It recharges in 4 seconds, which means that its base attack is getting interrupted very often, which can be annoying. Make the cooldown 6 seconds and have it deal a burst of damage, which would look a lot cooler as well as be a balanced, less frustrating skill.


I'll implement your other suggestions found here, but may I ask how the first ability of the creature is complex first? It seems pretty simple to me; it's maybe not so simple to program, but certainly easily understandable.


You answered your own question: It's very easy for a person to understand, but the skill isn't simple to program. Plus, summoned creatures rarely have abilities in KR, and when they do, it's a simple AOE or strong attack. The kind of effect that this creature has is more like an actual hero's power, which is against the KR formula. I suppose it could be excused if it weren't for the intricate effects of almost every attack and skill that Lazarus has creating too much overall complexity. :)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:Fitful Sleep reinforces my feeling that this hero is trying to be as complicated and unique as possible in a vain attempt to be superior to all others. It also has traits that don't work well with each other. For example, enemies can't have more than one affliction at a time, yet he sends out a total of 16 shockwaves. Many of those will be wasted, and the time spent sending all of those waves is time that could be spent relishing in the awesome, original ideas you have being used to slay monsters. The quick rate of each wave along with the percentage chance on multiple enemies is demanding for the game to lag or crash, as well. The effects themselves are really cool, at least. The first one is especially befitting of his theme of dreams and insanity, but the other skills lack the same aesthetics as Lazarus. Really, the ability could just have the first effect and would probably be better. I love the idea of making a couple of enemies go insane and killing each other. Considering the pure destruction that the skill could cause and how much damage each ability does, the cooldown does not match, making the abilty OP. I really feel like the skill could be just the first effect, but with less waves sent at a time and a lower chance to cause the effect to enemies, so that they don't all become afflicted. It would fit the theme more and the balance of the game.


Well, sometimes I just feel like that as long as something is cool, then the more complex it is, the better. I'm sorry if some of that perspective overflowed into this hero; I'll try to remedy the problem as best I can. If you want to remove this ability altogether and replace with something else, then I can, because I always make sure that I have back-up abilities just in case. That way I have a veritably large pool of ideas to draw on when conceptualizing. 8-)


You're ambitious; I admire that. It's just the execution that went overboard in my opinion. :) About replacing the ability, do what you think is best with the skill. The other ideas might be better saved for another hero, in case they don't thematically fit. You can always implement my suggestion. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:Dream Beam is a breath of fresh air compared to these essays of skills. The effect it has works well with Lazarus's concept. Compared to Hammer Time, this skill is vastly superior, so the cooldown should be increased significantly. Otherwise, I like it.


Good, I shall remedy the problem with a CD increase of 3 seconds. Is that acceptable? :)


Exactly what I was thinking. ;)

Ninja wrote:
Big Bad Bug wrote:Psychic Strike is a rip off of Lynn's Hero Spell, but outright stronger in damage, AOE, and even has a bonus effect that greatly surpass the attempt at balance by increasing the cooldown by 10 seconds. This power also lacks the dream-like effects that it ought to have as a skill of Lazarus. I really just dislike this power.


This ability was more of an afterthought because I had no more ideas at the time of Lazarus's creation. I recently had an idea for a better ability, and I've been itching to replace this one.


I understand what you mean. Sometimes I jut want to finish the hero by the last ability and can't think of a really good skill. Now that you've got something new, and hopefully better, let's see how it and everything else change the hero. :mrgreen:
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Magnus0 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:39 pm

I feel like Lazarus is really... overwhelming. There is a lot of creativity in there, but it's just too much for one hero. Especially his passive is a bit overwhelming; all three phases could very well be separate abilities. I like the concept of having three seperate attacks, but not if they are all totally different, both visually and in the way they work.

There is just so much going on with this hero. Maybe it's just me though, because prefer heroes that have lots of options with very simple abilities and maybe a cool passive that complements those abilities.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:34 pm

Magnus Swiftwind wrote:I feel like Lazarus is really... overwhelming. There is a lot of creativity in there, but it's just too much for one hero. Especially his passive is a bit overwhelming; all three phases could very well be separate abilities. I like the concept of having three seperate attacks, but not if they are all totally different, both visually and in the way they work


We think alike, Magnus. ;)
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:Thanks for taking the criticism so well, Ninja! :D I was worried for some reason that too much criticism at once would make you become contentious or apprehensive. I had nothing to worry about, though; you're very level-headed. ;)


Well, I have a biased perspective and therefore have no real choice but to listen and accept criticism if I ever hope to improve my heroes. Negative criticism is almost always more helpful than positive, anyways. You can rest assured that I'll only oppose criticism if I misunderstood your meaning. :)

Big Bad Bug wrote:Whoa, what happened to your post? :? :lol:

The Z's are cartoony, which I don't mind because Kingdom Rush is a cartoony franchise. My issue is with the fact that he's a teenage Elf, and sleeping on a bed carried by others. The former makes me think of Twilight and other angsty, annoying YA fictional world, and the latter seems too similar to King Denas. I like King Denas, but that quirk seemed personal for him, though I understand the need to move him since he's asleep. Maybe you could have an older Elf cursed into slumber, who subconsciously fights enemies, with his magic levitating him around to fight enemies. He could keep his immunity to melee by being a flying hero. ;)


I've changed it so that he is an adult now, though not an old man, as I don't really feel like that fits this hero. And I also changed his mode of transportation.

Big Bad Bug wrote:A single unique attack would be better, as having something special would open to opportunity for him to split and focus damage, making him extremely versatile, more so than before since the cycle would make it harder to get the effect you want in a prime situation. ;) I could give suggestions, but I'm sure that you already have something better in mind. :)

What I meant about heroes striving towards perfection is that the goal should be to make them flawless, but not superior to others. A superior hero won't necessarily be perfect. Since there are multiple heroes in game, we of course want them all to be perfect, so we strive to make them all that way. If successful, all heroes will be equal, allowing players to not worry about balance and simply choose the heroes that fulfill the necessary role or have the most fun playstyle. :)


Thy will hath been accomplished, Lord BBB.

Well yes, that I gathered that much. What I meant is that if a hero is successfully made perfect, then he would be superior to the heroes that are currently in existence, whether he be more powerful or not.

Big Bad Bug wrote:Is the effect of Astral Projection instantaneous? I imagined that the soul would travel to enemies, striking them with its body, afore disappearing upon the final hit. It would take some time to do that, during which Lazarus would execute NM before every stat bonus was collected. If the skill is executed in an instant, then the timing isn't an issue, but NM still needs a drastic nerf. ;)


No, but do you seriously think that he'll be able to summon the NM while not in possession of his soul? :P

Big Bad Bug wrote:You answered your own question: It's very easy for a person to understand, but the skill isn't simple to program. Plus, summoned creatures rarely have abilities in KR, and when they do, it's a simple AOE or strong attack. The kind of effect that this creature has is more like an actual hero's power, which is against the KR formula. I suppose it could be excused if it weren't for the intricate effects of almost every attack and skill that Lazarus has creating too much overall complexity. :)


Alrighty, then. I didn't think that you meant it was complex in regards to its programming, as most people don't think about that when creating a Fanfiction hero.

Big Bad Bug wrote:I understand what you mean. Sometimes I jut want to finish the hero by the last ability and can't think of a really good skill. Now that you've got something new, and hopefully better, let's see how it and everything else change the hero. :mrgreen:


Good to know I'm not alone in that respect. :mrgreen:

---

Balance Patch 01:

  • Characteristics of base attack have been changed.
  • Nerfed Manifestation. (Heh, the abbreviation for that is also NM. :P )
  • Fitful Sleep replaced with Whispers in the Night. (Basically implementing BBB's suggestion with a few changes.)
  • Dream Beam slightly nerfed. (CD increase.)
  • Psychic Strike has been removed, and Darkness Rises to fill its place. :twisted:
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:15 pm

Whispers in the Night is an awesome name and an awesome skill. :twisted:

Darkness Rises is a perfect mixture of chaos. This skill defines Lazarus to me, though NM is also a very iconic ability with him as well. The skill is balanced since the AOE doesn't cover that much of the map and still deals really good damage to enemies with a decent cooldown. However, "Darkness Rises" is already a quote belonging to the Necromancer Tower. ;)
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Ninja » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:Whispers in the Night is an awesome name and an awesome skill. :twisted:

Darkness Rises is a perfect mixture of chaos. This skill defines Lazarus to me, though NM is also a very iconic ability with him as well. The skill is balanced since the AOE doesn't cover that much of the map and still deals really good damage to enemies with a decent cooldown. However, "Darkness Rises" is already a quote belonging to the Necromancer Tower. ;)


Yeah, I know that Darkness Rises is already a quote; it's such a cool name, though.
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Re: My Hero Ideas (2)

by Big Bad Bug » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:24 pm

I believe that some quotes are already repeated in KR, namely "Dodge This!" being both an archer quote and an achievement. I suppose it isn't that bad then, especially when the quote is so good and can convey falling asleep. ;)
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