Subaquatic Menace thought's

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Subaquatic Menace thought's

by SealDarklight » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:23 pm

I think Subaquatic Menace Update was alright, it introduced 3 new levels, 1 new tower, 8 new enemies (including the boss) and a new hero. I think the new levels themselves are reminiscent of the Rising Tides which is a pretty hard and challenging and also has the Deep Devils themselves were pretty cool to see and use but ill go over what i think are the new enemies, hero and the tower itself.¨

Anurians (AKA frog people)

Anurian Chaser
One of the hardest basic enemies in the series and are in pretty much the same difficulty scale as the Demon spawns and Trolls in terms of danger. They deal ok damage and have pretty low speed and health but what makes up for it are its armor and leap attack which can do some serious damage when they come in groups. There really good.

Anurian Warden
Anurian Warden are pretty basic in terms of design but if the infuser comes then they can be a serious danger. They are pretty powerful versions of the Myrmidons but lack the Vampiric Bite in exchange for invulnerability which functions the same way as Demon Lord using the shield on demons which you have to deal as much damage in order to remove the shield. I also love these.

Crystal Amphitere
There basic flying enemies and forgettable. They function similarly to the Bats but their speed boost is replaced by Infusers speed buff for them. Not a fan of these

Anurian Infuser
Serving as an active version of the Channeler which shields the Warden and boost the speed of Amphitere. They have pretty similar to Priestesses but a bit higher magic resistance and increased damage as well as giving them a range attack. They can also infuse with crystals which makes Wicked Sisters and Zeppelin having allot more uses on those levels. There also really good.

Anurian Erudite
Basically magic resistant versions of the Warden and allot more dangerous since they can cast triple bolt which can deal some serious damage especially with the Channelers. They also have allot of health which the Boomerangs might have some problems with them like the paladins but not as much. I love these too but Vengeance needs a new Magic resistant units or Heroes mainly for the Magic dealers.

Anurian Channeler
Passive versions of the Infusers which have a bit more health and have deadlier melee attack than range (Although they deal magic damage) compare to Infusers. They can boost the damage to Erudites and increase armor to the Demolishers which can be a problem. I also like these.

Crystal Demolisher
Beated the Twilight Golem as the Hardest Hitting enemy in the series and being a crystal elemental to the Amphitere for the Anurians. The Demolishers have same health as the Frost Giants in all difficulty but attacks allot slower and doesn't have any armor (If the channelers aren't around) but in exchange by dealing double the damage with AOE and has a similar explosion radius to the Abominations. Their armor increase isn't as dangerous as the other enemies since they move extremely slowly and the Boomerangs can deal with the channelers and killing the channelers can devastate the Golem for their defence. I like them but not as much as the Bloodshells, Brutes or the Twilight Golems as they have pretty pathetic health. At least they have the same attack speed as the KR1 giant enemies or bosses which i missed.

Polyx The Wise
Polyx the Wise is an instakill boss and unlike the newer Instakill bosses in the series they brought back the ability to instakill heroes which KR1 and Nazeru only had which i missed as well. Polyx itself is a pretty slow Boss but can teleport around the map for 3 times and the third time he teleports near the spawn so you had to focus on using the strongest tower near the exit. He is a really good boss and you should use range heroes or use the Zombies (Mainly in numbers), Elves or the Redispines (having range attacks) as he can instakill strong heroes like Jigou or Veruk or towers like Orc and Knights. I do like it

Deep Devils Reef
The Deep Devils have Returned and this time to claim a new home from their failed conquest. They are the Magic and Barrack hybrid tower which confirmed that the Rotten Forest is actually an Archer and Artillery hybrid tower. The Bluegale itself has the same attack speed as the KR1 and KRF tower but deals less damage and the Greenfins (Redspines as well) are pretty much the Weakest units in the series as they come in 2, have lower health than the Orcs, Deal nearly as much as the Zombies and have low damage but makes up with the two as its own unique tower.

Once in level 4 the Greenfins become Redispines which gives them a range attack which can help them for dealing with the flying units but i find the upgrades to be rather disappointing. The Redspines get boosted stats which they should have gotten already or replaced, the Perfect Lightning is another disappointing which they could have given the Bluegale the same storm ability as the Frontier one as it has AOE and could heal which would have made the tower allot better and the only best ability the tower has is the Net Throw which is reminiscent of the Greenfin using the nets which proves to slow down enemies making it allot more useful. I was also disappointed by the Greenfins giving them the Bloodshell armor (while a good reference). They could have given the armor like the Deviltide which basically looked like upgraded Greenfins (also level 2 doesn't even give them any armor which they have shoulder pads on them but a minor nitpick).

Overall i wouldn't say the tower itself is bad but the tower is pretty Disappointing in terms of having 2 abilities and having weak units for just 2 units overall. The Redspines gives them range attacks and the Blue Gale itself does deal a pretty decent damage which makes the tower somewhat good or average. I somewhat like it but i don't like it as much and its also cheap costing 3 dollars which isn't allot and is somewhat better than some of the paid tower but not as much as the Zombies or the Gem.

Jun'Pai

Jun'Pai himself isnt the best staller in the game but you should treat him as a range support hero which is where he is really good at. His best ability is the Banner which proves his supportive roll and he works especially well with the Knight (mainly for their armor and health) and the Orcs (Increasing the regeneration rate if the Seal of Blood is on). His other abilities are the tides which the stun is useful and the Gaze of Naga which not only slows down enemies but silences them making it really useful for dealing with the channelers and the Infusers if you didn't use the witches. His weakest ability is splash which does little damage and while it does recharge fast you should spent this last as it does pretty little damage. Terror from the Deep is his Hero spell and while the damage is high, it works on either slow enemies or if the enemies are stalled. It can also damage the flying units and recharges surprisingly fast for a hero spell. His natural passive is alright but you should worry about moving him and treat him like Eridan from Origin as he doesn't have to be moved compare to most range heroes.

Overall Jun'Pai is one of the Better heroes as he really good for range and support and proves to be pretty effective if you can use him. He is also pretty cheap costing the same as the Deep Devils and i would recommend him. I love this hero

Overall i think its an alright update. I want to know what others think about the new update? Just a simple review.
Last edited by SealDarklight on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by RaZoR LeAf » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:57 pm

SealDarklight wrote:which confirmed that the Rotten Forest is actually an Archer and Artillery hybrid tower.


You what? Where did you get that idea from? What part of Rotten Forest says Archer? And confirmed implies Ironhide has said it, so please provide this source.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by SealDarklight » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:43 pm

RaZoR LeAf wrote:You what? Where did you get that idea from? What part of Rotten Forest says Archer? And confirmed implies Ironhide has said it, so please provide this source.


The idea comes from the tower's characteristics since the tower's release people had hard to figure it out if it was either an archer tower or an artillery tower but when the Deep Devils reef was released then i realized it has both factions way. Don't give me wrong, it isn't exactly like the Deep Devils Reef which functions with two ways but rather it has two in one way. It attack speed, damage as well as dealing physical is reminiscent of the Archer tower since the roots themselves are not explosives and archers fire fast and deals pretty low damage but it acts like an artillery since it can't hit flying enemies and its radius is that of the Dwaarp or Furnace. It is very cleverly designed after all.

You could also say that yes there can be an artillery with Very Fast attack speed and yes Druid towers stones are not explosive either and they have AOE but then again if it was an artillery tower then why does it deal physical? ;)
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by RaZoR LeAf » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:57 pm

I don’t recall anyone having difficulty in categorising the tower. It doesn’t target or damage flying enemies, which is a trait only shared by Artillery Towers. You can’t use low damage and fast speed as a reason to make it an Archer tower.

I’m not saying Vengeance hasn’t changed the structure of towers, a lot of them now share aspects that were once set to a certain tower type, like the Wicked Sisters and War Zeppelin working off a rally point for instance. But Rotten Forest is more likely to be an Artillery/Special operating with a unique ability that is not shared by any other tower. It is more like Terrain (Thermal Vents) than anything else. It's as far from an Archer Tower as possible.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by AerisDraco » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:28 pm

I've found direct confirmation that the Rotten Forest is an Artillery tower from one of the devs.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by SealDarklight » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:14 am

I don't necessarily call it an archer since doesn't shoot dots and does act like an artillery. Just the both in one way.

Otherwise this topic is more about the fought's of the new update rather than Rotten Forests characteristics since it doesn't matter to me if its just an artillery if people think about it but i keep it as a hybrid. Whats your fought's about the update?
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:45 pm

RF is definitely an artillery. Why?
1) It doesn't targets flying guys, and, more importantly,
2) It deals area damage.

For my thoughts on the update, the news levels are pretty good and really interesting (they were right when they decided to bring back the Deep Devils - Rising Tides was one of the best mini-campaigns so far), but the enemies aren't THAT powerful (compare them to the Demons, if you will).

For the tower and hero, both are pretty solid, but the tower won't do much good singly. You'll havr to spam it, and you can create nice choke points at junctions using it. Jun'Pai is also a good hero with nice area damage skills, plus the great Naga debuff (10 second cooldown and permanent silencing; the best silencer on my opinion across the KR series), and the Splash is also pretty good, as it gives him decent area damage.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Ninja » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:05 pm

Have you tried Impossible Mode? The enemies really shine at that difficulty (though I guess that should be a given :lol:).
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:07 am

Tried, failed thrice, but finally managed NLL.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Ninja » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:23 am

Awesome! :D It took me more tries because I refused to change up my strategy. At least now I can beat it with a much-harder-than-necessary, timing intensive, and uselessly specific strategy. :lol:
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:20 am

What strategy did you use? Myself, I tried SA spam many times but failed. What I did was Bone Flingers and Mausoleum, and little to no barracks, along witb Asra.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Ninja » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:32 am

For each level my strategy is totally different. However, I was mostly talking about level 1 since that's by far the most remarkable one.

Well, it's very specific like I said, so Asra, reinforcements, and Soul Impact play an integral role, but the tower setup is this:

Immediately blitz out a Mausoleum with both Gargoyles on the spot nearer to the entrance at the junction between the two top paths. Start on another on the bottom path with the remaining money. As soon as you have enough gold, upgrade the bottom Mausoleum to T2 Gargoyles just like the top. The first few waves are REALLY tight on timing and hero usage/reinforcement placement.

The rest of the strategy on these two SMs. The backmost tower plot is usually reserved for another SM or an Orc Warrior Den/Dark Knight tower. A TT, GC, or IM is in the final spot of the tower plot triangle around the top path junction.

After this, it becomes less tight, but waves 11 and 13-14 are really tough and might become dicey without optimal play. IMs and SMs are used on most of the frontal tower plots.

You'll notice I only have Gargoyles and maybe one barracks in the very back for stalling because letting Chasers jump a quarter of the map for free is unnecessary and makes the levels much, much harder. Sometimes I have a Den on the middle of the bottom path as well, but only after the early and middle game is past (because the bottom pretty much dries up in terms of Chasers after that).

I also don't really care for physical damage on level 1, because the only MR enemy is the Infuser, which I can make short work of with a little micro-ing of Asra and some reinforcements (maybe a Soul Impact or two). They definitely need to be stopped before they get rolling, though.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:22 pm

I also used barracks less due to the enemies being heavily anti-barracks (like Erudites and Chasers). I actually did levels 2 and 3 without using any barracks. On the first, I had experimented with Harassers to disastrous effects (Defeat on Wave 4), and later came up with a strat with Orcs as stallers (good with Chasers due to their numbers and regen) and some micromanagement.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Ninja » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:27 pm

One useful fact is that units cannot be jumped on by Chasers if they are too close to an exit. In certain places, the distance is extremely lenient. This does allow for some safe barracks usage.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Knight_Artorias » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:03 am

Love that they brought back a tower and hero from what I think was the best mini campaign in the entire series. The new campaign is also pretty good.
They could have been a little more innovative with the new hero. I've noticed that the banner doesn't actually heal him which is disappointing. His shockwave ability is pretty old fashioned. They cud have replaced it with a unique skill that wasn't seen in previous games.It s best using him as a range support but that shockwave only triggers on meele which is a shame.
I really like the new tower more for its design than its usefulness. As said,redspines shud've came preupgraded with the stats coz its basically like the orc upgrades. The lightning storm feels weak. It isn't AOE ryt? AOE would be nice similar to the bluegales.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:24 am

The hero (Jun'Pai) is already quite creative and interesting to use. Also, if the shockwave triggered in ranged, then we would waste it on weak enemies.

For the new tower, it's already extremely useful. It can be spammed to create a deadly chokepoint. Pitch in Jun'Pai and even the Crystal Demolishers won't get through.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Ninja » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:08 pm

Uranato wrote:The hero (Jun'Pai) is already quite creative and interesting to use. Also, if the shockwave triggered in ranged, then we would waste it on weak enemies.


But would it be a waste? It only deals 90 damage, which is only good for weak to medium HP enemies anyways. ;)
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Knight_Artorias » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:14 am

isn't the point of his shockwave skill to deal with weak enemies? 90 DMG is hardly going to scratch the likes of Nanoq warbears. However,His ranged attack is so useful and its quite high too
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Uranato » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:52 am

Wait a sec, are you talking about Splash? I was talking about his first skill, which raises three water geysers from the ground (sort of). It only activates in melee, I think.

For Splash, it's supposed to be a melee skill, otherwise it would make him kinda OP (think about those poor flying hordes. Splash is somewhat similar to Alric's flurry or Eridan's TwinBlades (albeit a littls different, as it's weaker and instead deals are danage), in that it is a quick-recharging melee skill which has to be used multiple times for effectiveness.

Jun'Pai already has devastatingly powerful skills, so they would've put Splash usefulness to minimum to prevent him from being overpowered. One of his best skills, as I've already said, is the Naga Gaze. Permanently destroying the magic of a whole group comes really in handy, and it synergizes with his Courage Banner skill, plus the new DD towers.

Think of this situation - There is an oncoming horde of Anurian Wardens and Crystal Demolishers, supported by a group of Channelers and Infusers and a Chaser horde to jump in at the critical moment. This kind of formation will break through even a tough DK-SM-BF defense, which usually works against everything else (even your Blazin' Gem won't work THAT well here - the magicians soak up their hits). This seemingly unstolpable attack can be broken by nothinv but 3 or 4 DDs + Jun'Pai. What you have to do is, first silence the magicians, rendering them useless, then plant a Banner right in the middle of the Redspines. the DDs' combined magical & physical damage will wreck through most of them, while Jun'Pai's tsunamis take out the Chaser horde.
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Re: Subaquatic Menace fought's

by Knight_Artorias » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:09 am

The water wave skill does activate even in range. I'm quite happy with this new hero. Does everything well-can handle weak, strong, air units pretty well and works so well with the new tower. However, I was expecting his HP to be atleast 750-800 considering his health bar is the same as Jigous as shown in the gallery
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