American Elections

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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:58 am

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Re: American Elections

by warbot1000 » Thu May 12, 2016 3:04 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:You have those numbers the wrong way round. That's all i'm going to add. There are 2 billion Muslims on this planet and more than you will ever meet are some of the nicest, kindest people you could ever know.
I would guess only around 100,000 people are what we could consider "Islamic Terrorists", perhaps a million, perhaps more. Regardless a drop in the Ocean of human kindness, you only think of Islam as a terrorist religion because that is how our minds and our media paint them at points. You can not, should not and bloody better will not judge an entire religion on what the media and those around you tell you about that religion. Meet some Muslims in the same economic, social and political position as you and find your own opinion.
Imagine if the conditions were reversed, and you like in Turkey or Armenia in the time of the crusades. Christianity would seem like a violent religion with countries full of those with bad intentions to you. Or if you were an Islamic Pakistani at the time of the division of pakistan, or a Buddhist in Tibet, or an Aztec in Medieval Mesoamerica.

Thanks for arguing for my religion dude :) .
Just to add to this argument.
I am a muslim and I was voted nicest guy in our year at the prom awards.(prom is in a month but they already did the voting and I got an email asking about whether or not I would accept the award. (school policy)
There are extreamist groups of every religion.
None are as large as ISIS but I doubt that all of ISIS are muslims. Most people in it are probably just using Islam as an excuse to do whatever they want.
This is true when you consider that everything that ISIS has done does not comply with the rules of Islamic warfare and that almost every high ranking person in the Islamic system (not sure what to call it) has said that what ISIS is doing is wrong.
The media is also misusing the word jihad which really annoys me because I try to live with that word and I think everyone should try to adopt some part of it.
Jihad means to struggle to do the right thing and the world would definitely be a better place if everyone lived and tried to do jihad.

Also I heard people in my school talking about Donald trump and they said that Donald trump would have gotten more money from interest than he did from all his business investments.

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Re: American Elections

by The Kingmaker » Thu May 12, 2016 4:00 pm

You're welcome :D
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Re: American Elections

by Sinque Productions » Fri May 13, 2016 2:07 am

If all Muslims "are terrorists" because some people there are ISIS members, Trump is going to have to remove all Christians, Buddhists, Jewish, Atheists and all others from America.
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Re: American Elections

by Ninja » Fri May 13, 2016 2:09 am

But how can you have no religions and no atheism? That's fundamentally contradictory.
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Re: American Elections

by Sinque Productions » Fri May 13, 2016 2:13 am

Ninja wrote:But how can you have no religions and no atheism? That's fundamentally contradictory.


Basically, he is going to have to remove everyone from America because they are part of a group and someone in that group did a crime.
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Re: American Elections

by AerisDraco » Fri May 13, 2016 10:54 am

Ninja is right; though I do agree with Sinque's point.
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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Tue May 17, 2016 10:59 pm

Hey all. I've decided I support Trump in this election. I think he would take this country in a direction that better represents my interests: a direction against PC culture, open borders, terrorism and hypocrisy. His character is admirable and I find myself drawn to his charisma. He clearly harnesses meme magic in his campaign.

MAGA
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Re: American Elections

by AerisDraco » Wed May 18, 2016 12:06 am

PC culture? I'm unsure of the meaning of this...
Open borders with Mexico I assume? The U.S. only has two borders, and that's the only one that's considered a problem.

He also does harness teh dank af memes

I must say though, he must have some kind of magic, because he's always able to turn mistakes into more support... some how...
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I'm certainly liberal, as you can tell from my posts on this thread. But, I must say, if Trump actually does execute (some of) his policies, it'll make the United States of America into, well, not America. It wouldn't be the same. Not just because of the general change of leadership, but because some of the policies would actually go against what the USA stands for.
-------
To be fair though, every candidate in this race has a multitude of problems.
I'm also wondering how the Canadian authorities will react to the massive influx of immigrants :lol:
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Re: American Elections

by Ninja » Wed May 18, 2016 12:31 am

AerisDraco wrote:I'm also wondering how the Canadian authorities will react to the massive influx of immigrants :lol:


:lol:
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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Wed May 18, 2016 12:55 am

PC culture: when one is called X-phobic or bigoted when one criticizes someone of group X. When speech is censored because it is "hate speech" despite free speech.

Open borders mean not only Mexico but refugees. We've already taken in tens of thousands and hardly anyone knows. The only problem I have with this is that they are not refugees at all, but migrants... no one is even pretending they will go back to Syria when conditions improve. No one will complain because muh diversity. Europe has it even worse. They have refugees working at one euro an hour. They have a massive rape problem. Such a large and sudden influx of cheap labor is obviously not good for their economy. Their jobs and people are being hurt.

Many of Trump's mistakes are intentional. The media and the anti-trumpers are confused when Trump gains attention, when his statements and tweets are carefully calculated to attract it. He has a tremendous understanding of the media's reactions.

I think Trump's policies embody America.
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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Wed May 18, 2016 1:16 am

AerisDraco wrote:I'm also wondering how the Canadian authorities will react to the massive influx of immigrants :lol:

Why are all the anti-Trumpers moving to Canada? What's wrong with Mexico?
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Re: American Elections

by AerisDraco » Wed May 18, 2016 1:44 am

Zonoro13 wrote:PC culture: when one is called X-phobic or bigoted when one criticizes someone of group X. When speech is censored because it is "hate speech" despite free speech.

Open borders mean not only Mexico but refugees. We've already taken in tens of thousands and hardly anyone knows. The only problem I have with this is that they are not refugees at all, but migrants... no one is even pretending they will go back to Syria when conditions improve. No one will complain because muh diversity. Europe has it even worse. They have refugees working at one euro an hour. They have a massive rape problem. Such a large and sudden influx of cheap labor is obviously not good for their economy. Their jobs and people are being hurt.

Many of Trump's mistakes are intentional. The media and the anti-trumpers are confused when Trump gains attention, when his statements and tweets are carefully calculated to attract it. He has a tremendous understanding of the media's reactions.

I think Trump's policies embody America.


Y'know, I did (parts of) a research paper on free speech in relation to hate speech. It's hard to determine the boundary between what should be allowed and what shouldn't.

Is tens of thousands really that much when compared to the ~312 million people in the US? I don't think so.
Though, refugees is a touchy subject. I personally would accept at least some refugees, as it just feels wrong to not help someone in need. I do realize that terrorism is a problem in that.
On the matter of Europe... I wouldn't exactly know how to put it. The rape problem is not necessarily caused by an influx of migrants, necessarily being the key word. As for cheap labor, it isn't good, generally. Though, if I'm not mistaken, it actually manages to level out eventually, but I dunno.

I like how Trumpers and Anti-Trumpers are now words. And yes, most of what he says is crafted specifically to attract attention.

As for what I meant, I mean that it kind of goes against the whole "nation built on immigrants" and "freedom of religion" thing.

And just saying, there's not much point in debating these things at all. We both have different viewpoints, and it's evident that we're not going to budge from said viewpoints.
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Re: American Elections

by Big Bad Bug » Wed May 18, 2016 2:12 am

The "no point in debating" claim is easy to make when one has the final say in an argument. ;)
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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:43 am

The boundary between free speech and hate speech is easy to define and has been defined. Anything that does not endanger another or infringe on their Constitutional rights is ok. So going up to someone and saying "I am going to kill you" is not OK. Saying "the Holocaust never happened" is OK.

No, tens of thousands is not a lot compared to 300 million. But they did not immigrate. We should send them back to Syria when it gets better there. Secondly, there is no good way to vet Syrian refugees (according to the FBI). Americans come first. Terrorists are a risk.

About Europe: back up your points. Don't just throw out 'necessarily" because it makes no sense. There is a rape problem in Europe caused by refugees. Period. Same with labor.

Trump supports legal immigration, as do I. Remember that Carter blocked Iranians and some Muslims from immigrating at one time. It's not a new idea.

Freedom of religion still exists. Even though I think Islam is a hateful religion, I still respect peoples' right to practice it. So does Trump.
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Re: American Elections

by SealDarklight » Wed May 18, 2016 6:37 am

If i have to say one thing i really dont know what president should I vote. I liked Barak Obama as president and since there's an election it's hard to pick. Speaking of it I don't like Donald Trump because well he's a complete idiot when I thinks about the Muslims and the Mexicans. I like few things about him.

:star: He's hair looks ridiculously funny
:star: He tries to make America cool
:star: He's pretty rich

Downside is

:skull: He doesn't allow Muslims or Mexicans because he thinks all of them are like that
:skull: He doesn't understand women at all
:skull: Some of his ideas are rubish

It's hard to tell if he becomes a president does America become Corrupt like Russia or does it go well? I hope he doesn't become and if he become he must allow Muslims or Mexicans in. He's ideas might corrupt people and people start bullying Muslims or Mexicans and that can be a problem. Well who said world becomes a better place on this age?

About the Islam I have nothing to hate about them, I only hate the Extremists but I also hate the Christian Extremists as well, well ISIS is pretty much terrorizing allot and the lates were in Iraq. There pretty small and also not big of a thread (ok they can still blow up on anywhere on the world :? ) but they casued people to think Muslims ways are like that. Donald Trump lied about Muslims celebrate 9/11 attack. Christians extremeist are numb nuts, they think everything is Satanists wich isn't.

I still worried about The Great Britain leaving the EU. I mean it could have been better if it was with us so we would be like the US. Its better that were a bigger place than smaller because it gets more connection to each other and better so people don't have to worry about that. Pretty much Hitler, Napoleon or anyone in the past want Europe to be a bigger country. I want Europe to be a big country as well.
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Re: American Elections

by The Kingmaker » Wed May 18, 2016 6:42 am

Well then. I don't speak for "Europe" but as a tea-drinking pipe-smoking good ol' Britisher I'm taking out my monocle and saying "tally Ho, old chap!"

The PC points you brought up are reasonably harmless in that they are common conspiracy theories. Saying "I think the holocaust never happened" while alone standing in a room is one thing, shouting "use the toilet you were born in you trans-fuckety shit!" In a group of people around some person trying to use the bathroom they want to is very much another.

"Rape-problem". Rape is a problem. Rape is done by all cultures. By some people, everywhere. By both genders. The German incident as far I know is pretty isolated (I don't speak for the entirety of Germany) but was picked up and run with by the xenophobes in my own media to fear monger about refugees.

Like has been said, the refugees coming to any country is a tiny amount compared to the country itself. I haven't seen anything here (I think it's meh in Getmany). Also conditions in Syria are absolute crap, not helped by any of our countries, and the term refugee means someone who is fleeing somewhere they cannot stay. Conditions in Syria are so bad they would rather drown trying to cross the Med than stay there. These people are not economic migrants coming to "steal your jobs". I've even done case studies on polish immigration and it's pretty much all positive.

I'll bring this up here and mayhaps give it its own thread later but The UK is currently and depressingly having to listen to its own homegrown xenophobes because we are having a referendum on our EU memebership. Are any of you aware of this, do you have any thoughts on it and would you be interested in hearing mine?
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Re: American Elections

by AerisDraco » Wed May 18, 2016 10:59 am

On the topic of Syria, if we aren't willing to take refugees, then shouldn't we try to at least help them? Aid and the such like?
And on topic of ISIS, first off, we can't really call it ISIS anymore. It's much larger than that. And, in truth, short of sending actual soldiers in, there's no real way to stop them. And even then, given what we saw in the Iraq war, it wasn't the quickest of "victories".

On the topic of "Brexit", I'm not entirely sure what to say. My knowledge on the list of pros and cons of being in the EU is limited.
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Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Wed May 18, 2016 12:18 pm

Thanks Kingmaker for making some good points.

I think "use the toilet you were born in you trans-fuckety shit" is an absolutely vile, ignorant and disgusting thing to say. But in the USA it is allowed by the first amendment. In the example you put, if the group is threatening the person or obstructing them from doing something they have a right to do, then that is not allowed. But the words themselves are legal.

I do realize that rape is a crime perpetrated by all people. But refugees are committing it at an unusually high rate. Cologne is not an isolated incident.

"Drawing only from German media reports, the list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven."
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/ ... 45e65e141d

One in 80 people in Germany are refugees. I don't think you realize how many that is. I don't think any one country should take so many. And I find it interesting that none of the large, wealthy, Muslim countries near Syria are taking in any refugees.

I don't find it depressing that people are expressing their opinions in a democratic process.
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Re: American Elections

by xstargaming » Wed May 18, 2016 9:46 pm

AerisDraco wrote:And, in truth, short of sending actual soldiers in, there's no real way to stop them.


If you'll pardon me, I've never liked this solution. I realize that in many instances, the usage of force becomes a necessity, however for as much as ISIS has waged war through violence, it has done as much via threats and psychology. Don't misunderstand my words -- there were more than 21000 attributed casualties in 2015 -- but they've been able to recruit and expand their power through fear and through the presumption of fear; in November, ISIS threatened to bomb D.C., and such was to cause the country panic (or in some cases, angry or taunting retaliation via comments on news articles).

Before we can infiltrate the heart of this terrorist group, we have to weaken them. The best way to do this is through counter-influencing the populations of their respective countries via propaganda and social media. While the governments of the majority of these countries limit the exposure their citizens have to external publishings, careful efforts to manipulate the youth of the Middle East would be the most powerful beginning to undermining ISIS. After that, direct warfare would be best to finish the work.

The problem with starting with combat is that ISIS can use it against us and our allied countries as part of their own agitprop. And, presuming we do break apart the group, it may well simply split into smaller sub-organizations which will grow to be as dangerous as what we presently face. Furthermore, you face the issue of the home front; most Americans already dislike the choices Congress is making, let alone going to war. Sometimes, the best way to fight an enemy is not to strike them, but to wait while they're bleeding for them to die.

Of course, I may be wrong entirely -- after all, I'm not a military strategist -- but as I see it, another declaration of war will only worsen the declining American morale and cause the enemy to potentially increase in severity.
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