Brexit

Anything and everything.

Re: Brexit

by The_TaTs » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:00 pm

Juice Box wrote:Regardless of which side searched up what, it's clear that this is proof of how a general population is unfit to vote on important political matters. It would have been great if people searched that BEFORE voting, but AFTER? When everything is done and nothing about it can be changed anymore? It's horribly pathetic that people voted on something most of them knew little about, not even the consequences it'll bring. It only furthers my point that a country should be run by a licensed minority, since apparently even a well-off country with abundant resources like Britain can't be asked to do something as simple as care enough about political matters.



What you are referring to is called the Elite Theory.
The problem with this kind of government is that it creates a very strong possibility for the "deserving minority" to exclude anyone else from entering the group, by having exclusive voting rights you can make it almost impossible from certain people that should deserve a vote to actually get it. Giving too much power to very few people is dangerous, since corruption is present in all types of regimes and not only in open democracies.

The one benefit of an open democracy (pluralism) is that, for the most part, no segment of a population holds political power over other segments. On the other hand, Elitism can lead to political, ethnical, religious and sexual persecution without any of the boundaries that are established when a Parliament and the Executive power are accountable to the entire population.

So while it remains true that democracies are flawed, and they are susceptible to bad electoral situations such as this particular referendum. It also holds true that it provides guarantees to reduce the amount of second class citizens and sanctioned persecution of minorities.

However, this was certainly a lesson on the dangers of having an uninformed electorate and the dangers of demagoguery in a time and age when everyone can access the necessary information to vote for what you really want instead of being swayed by powerful slogans.
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Re: Brexit

by dimumurray » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:41 pm

The_TaTs wrote:
Juice Box wrote:Regardless of which side searched up what, it's clear that this is proof of how a general population is unfit to vote on important political matters. It would have been great if people searched that BEFORE voting, but AFTER? When everything is done and nothing about it can be changed anymore? It's horribly pathetic that people voted on something most of them knew little about, not even the consequences it'll bring. It only furthers my point that a country should be run by a licensed minority, since apparently even a well-off country with abundant resources like Britain can't be asked to do something as simple as care enough about political matters.



What you are referring to is called the Elite Theory.
The problem with this kind of government is that it creates a very strong possibility for the "deserving minority" to exclude anyone else from entering the group, by having exclusive voting rights you can make it almost impossible from certain people that should deserve a vote to actually get it. Giving too much power to very few people is dangerous, since corruption is present in all types of regimes and not only in open democracies.

The one benefit of an open democracy (pluralism) is that, for the most part, no segment of a population holds political power over other segments. On the other hand, Elitism can lead to political, ethnical, religious and sexual persecution without any of the boundaries that are established when a Parliament and the Executive power are accountable to the entire population.

So while it remains true that democracies are flawed, and they are susceptible to bad electoral situations such as this particular referendum. It also holds true that it provides guarantees to reduce the amount of second class citizens and sanctioned persecution of minorities.

However, this was certainly a lesson on the dangers of having an uninformed electorate and the dangers of demagoguery in a time and age when everyone can access the necessary information to vote for what you really want instead of being swayed by powerful slogans.


Well said.
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Brexit

by SealDarklight » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:41 pm

To me Brexit was pretty pointless. I mean yeah it is possible that EU can lead to corruption but the thing is it could lead Great Britain to become poorer if they did that. Of course EU wouldn't have a corrupt leadership and if they do the people would protest and throw off. It does look like the EU is like what Napoleon or Hitler would have but better than that than some newer or even Crazier ruler would and not to mention that EU would pretty much be like United states of America now that's my point of view. It's a pretty scary thought but if the Great Britain would be poor and weak then they'll bring corruption to themselves but as far as I know I think it would split up and hope their economy stay strong. Now what's with the political talks and stuff and shouldn't we talk something else? World is changing and we are in history.
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:40 pm
Location: In the Deep Dark Woods

Re: Brexit

by Simmonds91 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:06 pm

I didn't vote because I don't trust what either side was saying, I don't know what the consequences would have been if I voted to stay or leave, im not going to contribute to mucking up this country any further without knowing the facts, but I was supporting leave spiritually because I heard that the EU tells Britain what laws it can or cant have and that the members of the EU cant be voted out of office.

I was thinking "I don't want to be a part of a dictatorship" but again, I don't know the hard facts. I'm just sad that almost everyone on the remain side is accusing over half the country of being racist xenopohobes.
Glory to Atom/Xenu/Bel-Shamharoth/FlyingSpaghettiMonster/HypnoToad/Yog-Sothoth/Kraff/Umbra/Yu-Yevon/Tak/Elynie/Shuma-Gorath/Unicron/RNGesus/ Tats /Hydra/Azrael/Leviathan-Lord of the Labyrinth
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1389
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:46 pm
Location: The Three Jolly Luck Takeaway Fish Bar, Dagon Street, Ankh-Morpork

Re: Brexit

by Manijure » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:25 pm

Simmonds91 wrote:I didn't vote because I don't trust what either side was saying, I don't know what the consequences would have been if I voted to stay or leave, im not going to contribute to mucking up this country any further without knowing the facts, but I was supporting leave spiritually because I heard that the EU tells Britain what laws it can or cant have and that the members of the EU cant be voted out of office.

I was thinking "I don't want to be a part of a dictatorship" but again, I don't know the hard facts. I'm just sad that almost everyone on the remain side is accusing over half the country of being racist xenopohobes.


I wouldn't say everyone in the Remain side is like that. And the people who are are generally extreme (although they are not necessarily wrong). Immigration is only a part of the reason, not the whole thing.

Many people in the Remain side, me included, are disappointed that a lot of people voted Leave just because they are angry with the EU and wanted change, whether good or bad. What's even worse is that many of them didn't even know what they were voting for. Some voted in a form of protest, not even thinking that they would actually leave he EU, while some others didn't even know what the EU was. You have the right mindset of only voting when you have the facts, which many people in the world fail to do.
"Carpe diem. Seize the day, boys. Make your lives extraordinary."
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:27 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: Brexit

by Simmonds91 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:30 pm

It helped that I never usually vote for stuff anyway :lol:
Glory to Atom/Xenu/Bel-Shamharoth/FlyingSpaghettiMonster/HypnoToad/Yog-Sothoth/Kraff/Umbra/Yu-Yevon/Tak/Elynie/Shuma-Gorath/Unicron/RNGesus/ Tats /Hydra/Azrael/Leviathan-Lord of the Labyrinth
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1389
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:46 pm
Location: The Three Jolly Luck Takeaway Fish Bar, Dagon Street, Ankh-Morpork

Re: Brexit

by The Kingmaker » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:16 pm

I'm not worried because I think half of my country is racists, I'm worried because I think the racists think half of the country stands with them.

And tbh, while it seemed like mudslinging while the debate was going on, most of the evidence that clearly displayed the negative impacts of a Brexit, it was dismissed as warmongering and threats.

They weren't. They were informed conclusions by educated people and I wish they'd been listened to.

That's as far as I've got thinking rationally about this whole thing.
"Aragorn: [Elvish] Sit down, Legolas."
Image

My treasured creations:
The Oddities, The Four Elementals, Gathering Twilight
The Community Improves Heroes
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:42 pm
Location: A stage (but all the world's a stage)

Re: Brexit

by FeedDaKingdom » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:42 pm

Sorry, but i just can't resist this.........
[+] SPOILER
Image
Image
Every soul is sacred, no one has to die
I just change the pace of inevitability
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:21 pm
Location: Inside a Main Battle Tank

Re: Brexit

by Big Bad Bug » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:57 pm

Hey guys I just found this video about Brexit from a YouTuber whose opinion I usually trust. :)
BBB
User avatar
Moderator
 
Posts: 7814
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:22 pm
Location: Your worst nightmares

Re: Brexit

by dimumurray » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:13 pm

Vox is awesome when it comes covering world affairs. Check these out:

YouTube Videos on Brexit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czWhVBmrNPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fzNdnzL8Ms

Comprehesive "Flash" cards on brexit:
http://www.vox.com/cards/brexit-uk-euro ... on-what-is
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Brexit

by Simmonds91 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:41 pm

“Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant
Glory to Atom/Xenu/Bel-Shamharoth/FlyingSpaghettiMonster/HypnoToad/Yog-Sothoth/Kraff/Umbra/Yu-Yevon/Tak/Elynie/Shuma-Gorath/Unicron/RNGesus/ Tats /Hydra/Azrael/Leviathan-Lord of the Labyrinth
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1389
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:46 pm
Location: The Three Jolly Luck Takeaway Fish Bar, Dagon Street, Ankh-Morpork

Re: Brexit

by The_TaTs » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:51 pm

Simmonds91 wrote:“Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant


I was tempted to lock this thread just so the conversation would end with a quote from Master Pratchett.
Sigh, self-restraint is one of the many burdens I must carry.
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Previous

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests