Hero Concept: Ninja

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Hero Concept: Ninja

by Sebliend » Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:04 pm

I haven't come up with a name yet, so right now I'm just calling him "Ninja".
And no,

Edit 1: Frontal Slash has been changed to Backstab, dealing more dmg but has higher cooldown. Bouncing shuriken's hits and dmg has been set down. Shadowclone's stun cooldown has been set up. Blink's dmg has been set up and it's cooldown has been reduced.


I've never really done something like this before, so instead of giving exact stats I'm going to say "low" or "high".
The "aprox A - B" is to show what stats he starts with at lvl 5 and then what stats he has at lvl 10.

Health: low, aprox 240-350

Armor: none

Damage: Physical, high, aprox 40-100

Attack speed: Fast

Respawn time: Slow, aprox 40 seconds?

Movement speed: Very fast


Abillities:

When an abillity is getting upgraded, instead of saying the whole thing over again(like it does ingame) I'm just going to say what's new and what's getting upgraded.

Backstab:
Some nice extra damage that can combined with another skill that I mention later.
[+] SPOILER
lvl 1: Every 10th second, Ninja teleports behind an enemy and attacks them. This attack deals 30% more damage.

Backstab also has an animation time of 1 second.

lvl 2: Cooldown is now 6 seconds. Next attack deals 60% more damage.

lvl 3: Cooldown is still 6 seconds, next attack deals 100% more damage.


Shadowclone:
I had just made this skill up and thought it through, and then someone reminds of Naruto's shadowclone thingy......
please don't think that this skill is a Naruto reference... .-.


[+] SPOILER
lvl 1: Ninja creates a shadowclone of himself. The clone cannot deal damage, but has very high health.

Shadowclone's stats: Very high HP(aprox 600). Cannot deal damage. It is possible for the player to move Shadowclone around
If Shadowclone dies, there will go 20 seconds before Ninja will re-summon him.

lvl 2: Shadowclone has 20% chance of dodging an attack. Shadowclone is now also able to stun enemies for 2 seconds.

Shadowclone can only use his stun skill has a cooldown of 8.


lvl 3: Shadowclone now has 40% chance to dodge an attack. If Shadowclone dies, he will be re-summoned back instaly by Ninja.




Bouncing Shuriken:
A skill that can clear multiple enemies while also deal very high dmg to a single enemy.
Might be OP.
[+] SPOILER
lvl 1: Ninja throws an enchanted shuriken that hits up to 5 times, dealing 50 dmg every time it hits.

Bouncing shuriken has a cooldown of 20 seconds.

If there are 5 different enemies nearby, the shuriken will hit all 5 of them once. If there are 4 enemies, it will hit the first 3 once, and then hit the 4th one twice. If there are 3 different enemies... It will hit the first 2 once, and then the last one 3 times. If there are only one enemy, it will hit him 5 times. I think you get the idea. ;)


lvl 2: The shuriken now hits up to 6 times. Dealing 60 dmg each.

lvl 3: Hits up to 7 times. Ninja can use Bouncing Shuriken more often.

Bouncing Shuriken's cooldown is now 15 seconds.

Is this skill OP? Should the damage or cooldown be reduced/increased..?


Hidden Blade:
The skill to finish off the big bad guys. Not very usefull against smaller enemies, but extremly usefull against such enemies as Ogre Magi.

[+] SPOILER
lvl 1: If an enemy has 5% or lower health, Ninja can instaly kill it.

Note: Hidden Blade has no cooldown, it's animation also takes 2 seconds to run.

lvl 2: 10% or lower health = Ninja can instaly kill it.

lvl 3: 20% or lower health = Ninja can instaly kill it.




Player Skill: Blink
This is the skill that the player can use!
It's pretty cool since it's the only skill in the game that actually interacts with the hero.

[+] SPOILER
lvl 1: Ninja blinks to the targeted destination. Stuns all nearby enemies briefly, Ninja's next attack deals 80 more damage.

Stuns all nearby enemies for 1 second.
Cooldown = 30 seconds

lvl 2: Next attack deals 160 more damage instead of 80. Reduced cooldown to 15 seconds.

lvl 3: Next attack deals 240 more damage instead of 160. Reduced cooldown to 8 seconds.




Ninja is meant to be a "high risk, high reward" hero. He deals extremly high damage, but if you don't pay attention even for just a second he might die.
The long respawn time is meant to punish you even harded for letting him die.

Shadowclone is meant to be a distraction that can stall enemies until Ninja comes and finish them off. Fx, if 2 blood ogres comes out at once.

Backstab can be combo-ed with blink. First you take Ninja out of combat for 6 seconds, then you blink him to a bad guy. Now Ninja's next attack will deal: (atk dmg + 240) x 2
In my opinion, the coolest thing is not only how it is possible to make combos with him, but how he also interacts with his abillity.


Is he OP? Is he UP? Or does he just not fit into the KR universe? Let me know what you think!
Last edited by Sebliend on Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:20 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Hero Concept: Ninja

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:32 pm

I'd prefer you to just give the numbers without writing approximately. If there are balance issues, is doesn't make them any less severe to say they're approximations, especially since you've already given exact numbers anyways. :)

Frontal Slash is a pretty boring skill. I get that it's meant to be a versatile effect so that Ninja can deal extra damage to pretty much every enemy he hits, but it just feels like a statistical passive to boost his damage, like Swordsmanship, but hidden underneath the effect of having a cooldown. Plus, it's pretty weak compared to other damage boosts, which tend to double hero damage or more. I suggest something more Ninja-themed, like teleporting behind an enemy in melee and backstabbing them, either as a counter to their attack, or as an active ability. It would look really cool and fit the Ninja theme very well, as well as give him an excuse to do more damage since he's getting a backstab on en enemy. :twisted:

Shadowclone is OP. If he can be resummoned instantly after dying, then he effectively is invincible and can indefinitely stall any enemy. Plus, his stun skill recharges too fast. A Shadowclone isn't the real deal, so it has an excuse to do riskier things than the true Ninja, so why not make it some way of dealing extra damage instead of stalling enemies. Have the clone dash (or teleport in a puff of smoke) from foe to foe, attacking it and stunning it, with a cooldown based on how many enemies are effected.

Bouncing Shuriken is well done for how you handling the way it strikes different enemies. However, you're right about it being OP (though you didn't need to ask; part of feedback is saying whether or not things are balanced) since most skills are pretty far from the DPS of 640 damage every 15 seconds, or 42.67 per second. Since the skill is so cool, I think just leaving the cooldown at 20 seconds for each upgrade and making it bounce 5/6/7 times for 40/50/60 damage each, it would be balanced by just dealing 21 DPS and be extremely versatile.

What is the cooldown of Hidden Blade? Also, does it have a unique animation and sound effect? Skills like these are better when they're flashy to make up for their simplistic nature. I find a skill like this to be good when a hero has lots of skills that can deal heavy damage to an enemy, so that this can be used to finish off an enemy. However, Ninja doesn't really have a way to get an enemy to this point. Bouncing Shuriken even in its current OP state won't get an Ogre Magi to 20%, meaning that he has to rely on other sources of damage to make enemies vulnerable to the attack. A higher damage attack with a slower cooldown would be more worthwhile since it would get more use.

I always liked that Hero Spells didn't move or effect the hero at all because it meant that players can use them regardless of where the hero is, what they're doing, or whether or not they're dead. If this skill is going to break the mould, it should be a really cool one to justify breaking the rules...

Oh, it's an AOE stun, just like Catha's skill. That's disappointing. :( If this guy can make Shadowclones, why isn't he summoning some huge shadow demon to cause bedlam and destroy enemies while Ninja sneaks around an slays enemies distracted by the beast? Do something super cool with this hero since he has the powers and theme to create lots of possibilities. Also, I don't like that the cooldown and other stats are changing with each upgrade. Skills usually change one or the other because they have to make sure that all of the changes can be described in less than 4 lines, since Ironhide didn't leave much space for skill descriptions and doesn't make to overcomplicate a game that doesn't need so much complexity.

You describe him making combos with his abilities. That's such an awesome concept, but he really only combos Blink and Frontal Slash together, which are both skills that need a lot of changes to be good anyways. When you try to improve his skills, keep the idea of combos in mind, preferably something like stacking tons of damage on enemies to prepare them for Hidden Blade's finishing blow. :twisted:
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Re: Hero Concept: Ninja

by Sebliend » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:38 pm

Frontal Slash is a pretty boring skill. I get that it's meant to be a versatile effect so that Ninja can deal extra damage to pretty much every enemy he hits, but it just feels like a statistical passive to boost his damage, like Swordsmanship, but hidden underneath the effect of having a cooldown. Plus, it's pretty weak compared to other damage boosts, which tend to double hero damage or more. I suggest something more Ninja-themed, like teleporting behind an enemy in melee and backstabbing them, either as a counter to their attack, or as an active ability. It would look really cool and fit the Ninja theme very well, as well as give him an excuse to do more damage since he's getting a backstab on en enemy. :twisted:

I've changed Frontal Slash to Backstab, now it might be a little too OP, since I've also not only increased Backstabs dmg to 100%, but also made made blink deal more dmg.... It still fits his Ninja theme very well though.


Shadowclone is OP. If he can be resummoned instantly after dying, then he effectively is invincible and can indefinitely stall any enemy. Plus, his stun skill recharges too fast. A Shadowclone isn't the real deal, so it has an excuse to do riskier things than the true Ninja, so why not make it some way of dealing extra damage instead of stalling enemies. Have the clone dash (or teleport in a puff of smoke) from foe to foe, attacking it and stunning it, with a cooldown based on how many enemies are effected.

But that's it, he can only stall 1 enemy at a time. You will have to pay attention to him to make sure that he always stalls the strongest enemy and not some random gnoll or goblin...
Even though having him stall an entire boss infinitely is kinda boring, so I will have to rework this skill entirely.

I've thought about changing him into someone that when you move him he teleports and when he attack he puts a "seal" on the enemy he hit, making it so when Ninja attacks the sealed enemy Ninja deals more % damage.
If I were to change Shadowclone into something like this I would ofcourse also have to reduce his HP


Bouncing Shuriken is well done for how you handling the way it strikes different enemies. However, you're right about it being OP (though you didn't need to ask; part of feedback is saying whether or not things are balanced) since most skills are pretty far from the DPS of 640 damage every 15 seconds, or 42.67 per second. Since the skill is so cool, I think just leaving the cooldown at 20 seconds for each upgrade and making it bounce 5/6/7 times for 40/50/60 damage each, it would be balanced by just dealing 21 DPS and be extremely versatile.

Bouncing Shuriken's damage and hits has been set down. I still want the cooldown to be lower since it just looks cooler to see him use it often instead of just every once in a while. And for how little HP he has I think it is ok for him to have more OP skills.


What is the cooldown of Hidden Blade? Also, does it have a unique animation and sound effect? Skills like these are better when they're flashy to make up for their simplistic nature. I find a skill like this to be good when a hero has lots of skills that can deal heavy damage to an enemy, so that this can be used to finish off an enemy. However, Ninja doesn't really have a way to get an enemy to this point. Bouncing Shuriken even in its current OP state won't get an Ogre Magi to 20%, meaning that he has to rely on other sources of damage to make enemies vulnerable to the attack. A higher damage attack with a slower cooldown would be more worthwhile since it would get more use.

I had forgot to say that Hidden Blade doesn't have any cooldown!
And with the improved Backstab + Blink, Ninja should be able to burst even an Ogre Magi.
I also forgot to say that Hidden Blade has an animation that lasts 2 seconds, if he dies while doing the animation, then Hidden Blade ofcourse won't activate.


I always liked that Hero Spells didn't move or effect the hero at all because it meant that players can use them regardless of where the hero is, what they're doing, or whether or not they're dead. If this skill is going to break the mould, it should be a really cool one to justify breaking the rules...

How you can't use the hero spell while Ninja is dead is just meant to punish you even more for letting him die. :twisted:


Oh, it's an AOE stun, just like Catha's skill. That's disappointing. :( If this guy can make Shadowclones, why isn't he summoning some huge shadow demon to cause bedlam and destroy enemies while Ninja sneaks around an slays enemies distracted by the beast? Do something super cool with this hero since he has the powers and theme to create lots of possibilities. Also, I don't like that the cooldown and other stats are changing with each upgrade. Skills usually change one or the other because they have to make sure that all of the changes can be described in less than 4 lines, since Ironhide didn't leave much space for skill descriptions and doesn't make to overcomplicate a game that doesn't need so much complexity.

He isn't summoning a giant shadow demon because he can only make a shadow clone. A clone of himself, which is a shadow. I could also make up something like, having already 1 shadowclone out takes alot of concentration, so having 2 shadowclones is impossible since then Ninja can't focus on fighting while he is controlling them. or something like that.

His skill is not only a teleportation, a stun, but also makes his next attack deal alot more damage. He teleports out of nowhere to an enemy, the enemy gets suprised and freezes in panic, so Ninja gets a hit in a critical spot on them. I think it fits the ninja theme pretty well. :)

And I'm sure that all of his skills can all easily be described in 4 lines or fewer.


You describe him making combos with his abilities. That's such an awesome concept, but he really only combos Blink and Frontal Slash together, which are both skills that need a lot of changes to be good anyways. When you try to improve his skills, keep the idea of combos in mind, preferably something like stacking tons of damage on enemies to prepare them for Hidden Blade's finishing blow. :twisted:

Well, I don't know how I would fit anymore combos into his skills, I guess that if I changed Shadowclone into what I described then Shadowclone "sealing" enemies would make up for another combo.

With his current skills he is still what I wanted him to be, high rish, high reward. You have to constaly pay attention to him to make sure he doesn't die. You will also constaly have to make it so he and his shadowclone focuses the right target, because of that he also takes some micro management skills to use effectively.
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