Boss Improvements

The place to make/discuss Kingdom Rush suggestions.

Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:04 am

Much like in my Heroes 2.0 thread, in which I detail ways that IH can improve the heroes; here I'll be trying to give helpful suggestions on how to improve the bosses. I'll start with Bram, the most disappointing boss in my opinion, even more so than Leviathan. The reason for this being is that the obvious phase 2 for this boss battle was obvious. Problem is, it was never implemented. Seriously, he's even got stinking bloodsydian in his gauntlets!

Bram


Phase 1: Bram the Beheader

*Rather than smacking his foes, Bram now wields a one handed battle axe, which he uses to decapitate his unfortunate adversaries.

HP: 6000
ATK: Instakill (150-250 v.s. heroes)
Phys. DEF: Immune to Archers (He deflects arrows with his gauntlets, much akin to how Wonder Woman deflects bullets with her gauntlets. The reason for this is just so that total Golden Archer spam is discouraged.)
Magic DEF: None
Speed: Fast (Think Xyzzy.)
Lives Taken: 20
Bounty: N/A

Abilities:
Bloodsydian Transmutation (Reload: 8s): Turns nearby Gnoll Reavers and Burners into Blood Gnolls.
Phase 2: Upon defeating his first form, phase 2 will begin.

Other Stuff:
  • Ettins constantly spawn at a rate of one per 5 seconds from the cave behind Bram's throne once the boss battle begins. They take the same path as Bram. Upon defeat of both of Bram's forms, they will die.
  • HUGE waves of Gnoll Burners and Reavers will constantly spawn from both of the entrances at the top. High level Druids at the top are recommended to combat these, so that they aren't funneled together with the Blood Ogres spawning from Bram's cave in Phase 2.

Cut-scene In Between Phase 1 & 2:
Upon defeating Bram, the bloodsydian in his gauntlets encases his entire body. Then, it explodes in flash of red light that fills the screen for a moment. When your vision of the battlefield is restored, Blood Bram stands where Bram the Beheader once did. Red-skinned, huge crystals protruding forth from his back and arms, with a veil of wrath over his face and his terrifying crimson eyes emanating pure hatred, Blood Bram is truly a terrible sight to behold. After a few moments of serenity to let all this awesomeness soak in, he roars, signalling the beginning of phase 2. (And the end of your pitiful life. :twisted: )

Phase 2: Blood Bram

*Bram's axe falls to the ground when he is encased in crystal.

HP: 18000
ATK: AoE Instakill (Slams his hands into the ground, encasing units in bloodsydian. Non-effectual versus heroes. Against them, he will deal 200-300 damage.)
Phys. DEF: 50% (He's still immune to arrows, but he doesn't bother to block them with his gauntlets any more. Now they simply bounce off his skin. [Or crystals, depending on where they hit.])
Magic DEF: -50%
Speed: Fast
Lives Taken: 20
Bounty: N/A

Abilties:
Instant Transmutation: Blood Bram will instantly transform any Reavers or Burners that pass by him into Blood Gnolls.
Bad Blood: Any friendly units encased in bloodsydian by Blood Bram will change into Blood Elves after one second, with the following stats:

HP: 500
ATK: 30-60 (Shoots with bow every 1.2 seconds. Attacks with double sword every 0.75s in melee combat.)
Phys. DEF: 50%
Magic DEF: -50%
Speed: Fast (Twice the speed of elven barracks.)
Lives Taken: 2
Bounty: 35

Other Stuff:
  • The roar displayed after transformation occurs is not only for show; it also turns all Reavers, Burners, and Ettins into their respective Blood Forms. After this, Gnoll Reavers & Burners will continue to spawn from their respective entrances, but now Blood Ogres will spawn from the cave. (At the same rate as the Ettins of Phase 1.)
  • Once in this form, Bram will jump back to the beginning of the top left entrance and proceed to the exit from there. After losing 1/3 of his HP, he will jump to horizontally to the other path. After losing another third of his HP, he will roar once again, summoning a massive horde of Blood Gnolls from the two top entrances while also turning all on-screen Gnoll Reavers and Burners into Blood Gnolls. Then, he will stomp his foot once, summoning 20 Blood Ogres from the cave, and then continue down the path until his final third of HP is depleted. (He will jump back to the top of the right path after summoning the enemies so that he can join his hordes in the glory of battle.)
Last edited by Ninja on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:51 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:17 am

Reserved comment.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:18 am

Reserved comment.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:35 am

Any critiques? (I don't want to triple post, but the first two are just reserved comments, so they don't count anyways, right?)
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Re: Boss Improvements

by AerisDraco » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:18 am

Leviathan needs a fix.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:20 am

I think that you've made Bram OP. Think about how short his path is and how close he actually comes to the exit on a Veteran level difficulty. With about triple the HP and a harder army to accompany him, he is impossible to kill.

My main issue with Bram is how boring it is to fight him. There was barely anything that he could do because of his short path, which is what I would change in order to make him a better boss. What if Blood Bram appeared from a further-away point on the map, like the far right path? I would also just eradicate the arrow-immunity. The Golden Longbow spam is still fun because I only build 4 of them, and the rest, 3 barracks and Arcane Archers each. This was the first Elite Campaign in Origins to encourage archer spam, so I would eliminate the repetition in other levels, where it actually becomes monotonous. This was still an original strategy at the time, and I find this level to be one of the few that I actually replay in Origins.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:34 am

Big Bad Bug wrote:I think that you've made Bram OP. Think about how short his path is and how close he actually comes to the exit on a Veteran level difficulty. With about triple the HP and a harder army to accompany him, he is impossible to kill.

My main issue with Bram is how boring it is to fight him. There was barely anything that he could do because of his short path, which is what I would change in order to make him a better boss. What if Blood Bram appeared from a further-away point on the map, like the far right path? I would also just eradicate the arrow-immunity. The Golden Longbow spam is still fun because I only build 4 of them, and the rest, 3 barracks and Arcane Archers each. This was the first Elite Campaign in Origins to encourage archer spam, so I would eliminate the repetition in other levels, where it actually becomes monotonous. This was still an original strategy at the time, and I find this level to be one of the few that I actually replay in Origins.


Well, now his first form only has 6000 HP rather than 11000 HP. Also, dealing with Blood Bram is really just like taking down 6000 HP thrice coming from different places at different times, because he always jumps back to another path. Sure, he has a better army now, but there has to be some kind of challenge. If you would explain a little more clearly, I may nerf him. :)

The top of the far left path isn't much farther than the top of the far right path, but I guess I could change that. I guess I could eradicate the armor immunity, but GL spam, even here, still seems unoriginal, because GL spam was the answer to every problem in the main campaign too. (Mixed with Wild Magi, of course.) Also, I can't very well eliminate archer spam in the other campaigns because I'm only fixing the bosses, and giving them all archer immunity would also be boring.

@Aeris: Indeed he does; in fact, he is next on the list. :)
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:25 am

Ninja wrote:Well, now his first form only has 6000 HP rather than 11000 HP. Also, dealing with Blood Bram is really just like taking down 6000 HP thrice coming from different places at different times, because he always jumps back to another path. Sure, he has a better army now, but there has to be some kind of challenge. If you would explain a little more clearly, I may nerf him. :)


I overlooked the 1st form change in HP. If he actually leaps back to the top of each path, then he becomes too easy with just 6,000 HP. Now that I look back, I dislike his new version even more because you added weapons for him and many more complicated features. Making him interesting doesn't take so much change, and it makes me feel as though this is an entirely different boss rather than an improvement to a previous one, killing the ultimate purpose. Also, having a better army is a poor substitute for having a challenging boss.

Ninja wrote:The top of the far left path isn't much farther than the top of the far right path, but I guess I could change that. I guess I could eradicate the armor immunity, but GL spam, even here, still seems unoriginal, because GL spam was the answer to every problem in the main campaign too. (Mixed with Wild Magi, of course.) Also, I can't very well eliminate archer spam in the other campaigns because I'm only fixing the bosses, and giving them all archer immunity would also be boring.


Really? I never used Golden Longbows in the campaign. They just didn't seem all that useful, even in the level where they first appeared. I still really doubt that these changes will alter the level's tactics anyways, since the waves all demand the use of large physical DPS, and the lane-switching rewards usage of towers with far ranges anyways. It seems contradictory in design.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:15 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:I overlooked the 1st form change in HP. If he actually leaps back to the top of each path, then he becomes too easy with just 6,000 HP. Now that I look back, I dislike his new version even more because you added weapons for him and many more complicated features. Making him interesting doesn't take so much change, and it makes me feel as though this is an entirely different boss rather than an improvement to a previous one, killing the ultimate purpose. Also, having a better army is a poor substitute for having a challenging boss.

Really? I never used Golden Longbows in the campaign. They just didn't seem all that useful, even in the level where they first appeared. I still really doubt that these changes will alter the level's tactics anyways, since the waves all demand the use of large physical DPS, and the lane-switching rewards usage of towers with far ranges anyways. It seems contradictory in design.


1) Well, if you want me to give him 11000 HP per leap, then I'll go ahead and do it. Just please make up your mind on whether he's OP or UP. The axe that I gave him was really just an afterthought for me; ever since I heard mention of beheading or the beheader, I was expecting the boss to have some kind of weapon to decapitate people, and I was actually rather disappointed when he didn't have one. It has no affect on gameplay, just aesthetics. I can change it if you really want, but I don't quite see the point of doing so. If you could explain what you mean by "complicated features", then I would be able to do something about that. All I did was add a couple of abilities and one more entrance for enemies. (Unless the complicated part you speak of is the leaping.)

2) I use GLs all the time in the campaign. I guess I can get rid of the arrow resistance, but just like how you think that it's contradictory in design, I think that it would be counter-productive if I were to eliminate the immunity.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:12 pm

Ninja wrote:Well, if you want me to give him 11000 HP per leap, then I'll go ahead and do it. Just please make up your mind on whether he's OP or UP.


Again, I overlooked the abilities that he has. It's not that I'm just changing my mind randomly. There's no need to be so condescending, especially when I'm the only one providing the constructive criticism that you wanted and are now pushing away.

Just get rid of the leap. He's Bram the Beheader, not Lam the Leaper. If you want to make him more interesting, give him powers that seem creative for the theme that he has, not adding more mechanics that don't belong with his title.

Ninja wrote:The axe that I gave him was really just an afterthought for me; ever since I heard mention of beheading or the beheader, I was expecting the boss to have some kind of weapon to decapitate people, and I was actually rather disappointed when he didn't have one. It has no affect on gameplay, just aesthetics. I can change it if you really want, but I don't quite see the point of doing so.


I don't see the point in adding the axe at all. You put this in the Suggestions section, not Fanfiction, so I'd expect some reasonable, plausible changes to be suggested. Ironhide doesn't change sprites or drastically alter things that have issues in their games; they find simpler ways to do things. Giving him a weapon is too unreasonable as an actual suggestion, though I do actually think that it would look cooler to see him properly behead his foes. The part that I dislike more than the original is his double sword and a bow, which has nothing to do with his character at all. They need to be removed.

Ninja wrote:If you could explain what you mean by "complicated features", then I would be able to do something about that. All I did was add a couple of abilities and one more entrance for enemies. (Unless the complicated part you speak of is the leaping.)


His leaping and weapons are overcomplicated because they add things that Ironhide wouldn't actually implement into the game and aren't befitting of a beheader(except the axe :ugeek: ). His army threatens to steal the spotlight, making it seem like a tough final wave rather than a tough final boss. Basic Gnolls to convert into Blood Gnolls is already a fine idea, but Ironhide just needed to make it easier for Bram to use his powers on them, but you took them out of the battle and added enemies that don't benefit Bram's design. That is why they are superfluous.

Ninja wrote:I use GLs all the time in the campaign. I guess I can get rid of the arrow resistance, but just like how you think that it's contradictory in design, I think that it would be counter-productive if I were to eliminate the immunity.


Would you care to explain why? I feel as though the arrow-immunity is counterproductive because the waves preceded the battle require Golden Longbows, but not entirely just them, making it more balanced. If you change the boss to counter archers, then players will have to sell their towers to beat him. Ironhide makes sure that you can beat any mission without selling towers, which would be ruined by this boss "improvement."
Last edited by Big Bad Bug on Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by AerisDraco » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:07 am

Am I allowed to post my own Boss Improvement for Leviathan?
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:42 am

AerisDraco wrote:Am I allowed to post my own Boss Improvement for Leviathan?


I think it would be better if you were to create your own thread. (Though that would be redundant. Too bad. :( )
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Re: Boss Improvements

by AerisDraco » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:43 am

So, yes?
Or no?
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:47 pm

AerisDraco wrote:So, yes?
Or no?


The answer was "no", create your own thread, please; I was just lamenting the fact that it would be redundant.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by The Kingmaker » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:08 pm

Why so? We made the community heroes thread for all, why not this also?
That at least is my opinion. You yourself say another thread would be redundant.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:32 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:Why so? We made the community heroes thread for all, why not this also?
That at least is my opinion. You yourself say another thread would be redundant.


It would also be redundant if we were to create another community thread. I knew this would happen before I even opened this thread; that's why I asked if all community ideas could be contained within a single Community Ideas Thread.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Sinque Productions » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:52 am

What about making the bosses more diverse and random, not just changing their stats?
Maybe a somewhat different route on each game?
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ruby_Hex » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:05 am

[+] SPOILER
May I suggest that Leviathan have more health, the ability to crush towers with his tentacles if you don't tap them enough and some kind of acid-breath attack? I also think he should move faster and not stop when he wraps his tentacles around towers. Maybe he could even have regeneration. I would also love it if you did one for Vasile...
Last edited by Ruby_Hex on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ninja » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:27 am

Ruby_Hex wrote:May I suggest that Leviathan have more health, the ability to crush towers with his tentacles if you don't tap them enough and some kind of acid-breath attack? I also think he should move faster and not stop when he wraps his tentacles around towers. Maybe he could even have regeneration. I would also love it if you did one for Vasile...


[+] SPOILER
Shhh, act like you never posted. I was going to revive this thread along with a whole bunch other stuff soon. Now, slip back into the shadows. ;)
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Re: Boss Improvements

by Ruby_Hex » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:39 am

*quietly walks into darkness*
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