Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

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Which Oddity makes the grade in the most peculiar way?

Colere, the Moon Sentinel
0
No votes
Thicket, the Satyr
0
No votes
Naemon, the Forsaken
1
11%
Manto, the Prayer
0
No votes
Thackus, the Gladiator
0
No votes
Amarthael, the Storm Queen and Silcalaril, the Prince Consort
3
33%
Bruunhilde, the Shield Maiden
0
No votes
The Abbot
1
11%
Saq'ra and Erqu
1
11%
Kro'Zok
3
33%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:55 pm

The Abbot of the Bladesinger Order has returned to fight for us, albeit in his/her/its many guises.
Compliments, Criticism and advice on where to point the Nerf Sabre are all greatly appreciated :D

More is on the way, and hopefully soon. All previous heroes have been moved to the first post to make a gap for the new ones.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:40 pm

I thought the changing of species and gender would have a gameplay effect, but it doesn't seem to do anything but add to the style of the hero, which is perfectly fine. :)

I see this hero's playstyle as being purely a duellist, similar to Reg'son.

And Lynn.

And Bruce.

Despite this similarity between pre-emptively made heroes, this is still a great hero who (finally) doesn't have a stupid passive stat upgrade like the other similar heroes do. They all seem cool and fun to use against big, important targets. Resignation is a bit less satisfying than Phoenix's skill, mainly due to the respawn time, but I like the eye-for-an-eye concept a lot. It leads to lots of fun choices for the player, like letting the hero fight some mooks first just to deal some good damage, and when they're close to death, send them to the larger enemy in the back and hope that the instant kill kicks in. I'd rather have an alternative to luck, but it's completely passable as it is. ;)

The only skill I don't like is Reputation, because it would give the same frustration that Blackthorne's looting has, which involves moving him around frantically to try and get as much gold as possible from the enemy. I'd want to keep the hero alive as much as possible to keep adding damage up higher and higher, which clashes against Resignation profusely. Change that to something else DPS-related, and you'll have a perfect hero. :hero:

As usual, the backstory is outstanding. :mrgreen:
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:17 pm

Thank you!

The species/gender thing was just aesthetic... Although maybe (in this hero or another) I could make it into something.

Pure Duellist was sort-of what I was going for (which, while unoriginal, especially if you add my own heroes to that list, I'm glad I achieved), although I had wanted a glass cannon element in there.
Resignation was, as pointed out, concieved to be similar to Immolation. Having just looked up on the Wiki again, I think I will up the respawn time to 10 seconds and give Resignation a cooldown as a regular move. At one point it was a straight up insta-kill (as I know you have a love/hate with luck powers) but decided to make the insta-kill a chance and add an area damage aspect.

I'll think about reputation. When I began concieving moves, I started this one as part of his Plutonium (Incredibly damaging, tiny life expectancy) play style, slowly adding to his lethality, but I guess Inevitability serves that purpose as well. Perhaps something to make him more glass-cannon and away from pure duellist a little.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Oof_Shunt » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:30 pm

I really like it!!! Especially the hero spell.
Last edited by Oof_Shunt on Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:59 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:04 am

Thank you, any advice on what I should replace reputation with?

Also is he generally balanced or OP, because I'm uncertain.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:56 pm

How about something HP-related? Unremitting: Every 60/40/20 damage taken increases his attack by 1 point.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Oof_Shunt » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:14 pm

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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Oof_Shunt » Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:16 pm

Maybeee replace it with something like that^^^
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:20 pm

Dear God Lee Pace as Thranduil was the best part of those hobbit movies.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:22 pm

No, it was the CGI. :P
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Oof_Shunt » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:41 pm

My favorite is the pet moose.

Thranduil's son is also kinda cool...

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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Oof_Shunt » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:25 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:Dear God Lee Pace as Thranduil was the best part of those hobbit movies.

I'm pretty sure many things were the best part of those hobbit movies.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:41 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:How about something HP-related? Unremitting: Every 60/40/20 damage taken increases his attack by 1 point.


As an alternative to this (as, despite not being implemented in the game it seems a little overdone) would something like this work?

Relentless (Passive): For every 60/45/30 health lost the Abbot's attack speed increases by 0.05 seconds.

It would serve a similar damage dealing purpose (haven't run the numbers yet), but would also link with Inevitability and (kinda) Beyond flawless.

Of course this could be overly complicated and BBB's idea would work.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:46 pm

But "unremitting" is such a more formidable description. :(

That skill works great, too, though I'd change the numbers to every 50 HP lost increasing attack speed by 2/3/4%. :)

Also, increased attack damage would still link with his skills, as each attack that he performs will have a higher damage value, which still adds to more total damage dealt by Beyond Flawless as well augmented the performance of his other powers.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:24 pm

I really like The Abbot! :D
I especially like how their
passives all work together
to achieve ultimate damage
with each strike.That's
really well done,almost
perfectly so. :D

But,I have one problem with
this hero.Resignation.It doesn't
explain enough to be
understandable. ;) Does The Abbot
do this as soon as they enter battle,
after a set time,or does this simply
add onto their innate ability??? :?
The description of "Pseudo-passive
whatever" is not sufficient.This
really needs to be clarified for
me. ;)

Other than that,the only other problem
is with Choreography.First off,it deals
way too much damage.(800-1100?Needs
some serious nerfing if the cooldown is
going to stay at only 40 seconds. ;) )
Secondly,I think the past Abbots should
each do something unique and different
and that the Bladesingers should be doing
the Blade Dances.However,I don't have any
suggestions for what the past Abbots should
do right now,so I'll leave that part up to you.
(if you like the idea. :) )
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:54 pm

Ninja wrote:I really like The Abbot! :D
I especially like how their
passives all work together
to achieve ultimate damage
with each strike.That's
really well done,almost
perfectly so. :D


Thank you!

Ninja wrote:But,I have one problem with
this hero.Resignation.It doesn't
explain enough to be
understandable. ;) Does The Abbot
do this as soon as they enter battle,
after a set time,or does this simply
add onto their innate ability??? :?
The description of "Pseudo-passive
whatever" is not sufficient.This
really needs to be clarified for
me. ;)


Resignation maximises and improves the secondary upon death stab the Abbot has. Like a single target version of Phoenix's Immolation. Thank you for reminding me to put in a 18 second recharge (which immolation has). The Abbot will use it upon death, regardless of cool-down. And after 18 seconds will be able to use it against a large enemy, especially with a group of enemies around them, this should have the same effect as Immolation, dealing heavy damage but not having much impact as the Abbot only has a small re-pawn time.

Ninja wrote:Other than that,the only other problem
is with Choreography.First off,it deals
way too much damage.(800-1100?Needs
some serious nerfing if the cooldown is
going to stay at only 40 seconds. ;) )
Secondly,I think the past Abbots should
each do something unique and different
and that the Bladesingers should be doing
the Blade Dances.However,I don't have any
suggestions for what the past Abbots should
do right now,so I'll leave that part up to you.
(if you like the idea. :) )

Actually I had the opposite thought here, but each to their own :). I decided a hero spell such as this would be excellent, as it can deal focused damage to a single target or plenty of damage to a group, either maximising his single-target damage or giving him some much needed crowd control. I based this spell around those of Bravebark and Durax. Durax's power deals 960 damage, but with an unspecified cooldown time, and Bravebark's deals 900 every 30 seconds. The average DPS of Bravebark's skill is 60. Durax's is probably around the same. The DPS of The Abbot's skill is 20-27.5, so personally it could actually do with a little buff, but I will certainly think of an alternative focusing on past Abbots. (My head-canon was that the Abbots Blade-dance from the Bladesinger temples (a possibly huge distance) to protect themselves and reduce direct involvement in their student's battles)
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:43 pm

Changed Resignation to have an 18 second cooldown.

Let's see... Every 50 health lost allows for 5 upgrades before death. Every 30 health allows for 9. Every 20 allows for 14. Every 40 allows for... um 7.

If it is reduced by 0.05s 1/15 each time. On 20 health (the final upgrade for 40) he would attack every 0.4 seconds (0.75-(0.05x7)). This essentially halves his attack speed when on 1/15 of his health. I like this.

Reputation has been replaced with Unremitting (yeah it sounds waaay cooler, and relentless is some crappy action movie)
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:53 pm

Oh yeah,I forgot something
else I wanted to say earlier.
I think that IH wanted to confine
the super low respawn of 5s
to Phoenix only,in keeping with
the fact that the mythological
Phoenix was all about rebirth
and what-not.However,a simple
solution to this is increasing
their respawn to 10s and increasing
the damage of Resignation to
200/400/600. :)

P.S. Like all the changes you made. :D
Thanks for clarifying about Resignation
for me. :)
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:10 pm

Bravebark's hero spell has a much lower DPS than what you give it credit for. Nature's Wrath summons vines across a large area, dealing fragments of that damage to enemies in different locations, without a truly determinable DPS. The damage is barely enough to kill a Harrasser if you center the spell right under the enemy, which maximises the damage output. The most is (a generous) 300 damage to an enemy and half that to others. I still find it balanced, though, because of the stun.

Xin has the most comparable hero spell, dealing 180 damage 6 times (1,080 if I did that correctly in my head just now) over 30 seconds, totalling to 36 DPS. Make the damage similar to 36, or exactly that if you'd like. I'd prefer a 30 second cooldown with 22 attacks dealing 30-60 damage each, since the average of those damage ranges is 45 and 45(22)=1,080 just like Pandaemonium. It can be just as spammy but more versatile while also having varying damage values, so you can hope for better efficiency against the targeted foe(s).

I do agree with Ninja about the respawn. In fact, I'd make it so that th skill only occurs if the Abbot actually does die, so that the players can choose whether or not to make those risky moves of killing their hero. For 10 a second respawn, simply multiply the damage by 2.5 and remove the instakill chance so there can be more reliability in the skill while dealing awesome damage every 10 seconds at a great cost. I could go really in-depth and calculate the DPS of the Abbot's base attack combined with abilities to see which choice is more effective in terms of damage per second, but that would overcomplicate things. Let's just pretend that it would be balanced and secretly adore the extra power of the hero. :twisted:

Math. :yey:
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:54 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:Bravebark's hero spell has a much lower DPS than what you give it credit for. Nature's Wrath summons vines across a large area, dealing fragments of that damage to enemies in different locations, without a truly determinable DPS. The damage is barely enough to kill a Harrasser if you center the spell right under the enemy, which maximises the damage output. The most is (a generous) 300 damage to an enemy and half that to others. I still find it balanced, though, because of the stun.

Xin has the most comparable hero spell, dealing 180 damage 6 times (1,080 if I did that correctly in my head just now) over 30 seconds, totalling to 36 DPS. Make the damage similar to 36, or exactly that if you'd like. I'd prefer a 30 second cooldown with 22 attacks dealing 30-60 damage each, since the average of those damage ranges is 45 and 45(22)=1,080 just like Pandaemonium. It can be just as spammy but more versatile while also having varying damage values, so you can hope for better efficiency against the targeted foe(s).

I do agree with Ninja about the respawn. In fact, I'd make it so that th skill only occurs if the Abbot actually does die, so that the players can choose whether or not to make those risky moves of killing their hero. For 10 a second respawn, simply multiply the damage by 2.5 and remove the instakill chance so there can be more reliability in the skill while dealing awesome damage every 10 seconds at a great cost. I could go really in-depth and calculate the DPS of the Abbot's base attack combined with abilities to see which choice is more effective in terms of damage per second, but that would overcomplicate things. Let's just pretend that it would be balanced and secretly adore the extra power of the hero. :twisted:

Math. :yey:


^This.Listen to it.
(Also,I think that letting the Abbot
live is more profitable than killing
him because of Unremitting,which
will make him attack crazily fast
after a while,and in turn massively
boost the power of Inevitable.This
hero would be instakilling all over
the place if it were real. :twisted: )
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