Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

Do you have an epic idea? Share it!

Which Oddity makes the grade in the most peculiar way?

Colere, the Moon Sentinel
0
No votes
Thicket, the Satyr
0
No votes
Naemon, the Forsaken
1
11%
Manto, the Prayer
0
No votes
Thackus, the Gladiator
0
No votes
Amarthael, the Storm Queen and Silcalaril, the Prince Consort
3
33%
Bruunhilde, the Shield Maiden
0
No votes
The Abbot
1
11%
Saq'ra and Erqu
1
11%
Kro'Zok
3
33%
 
Total votes : 9

Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:38 pm

Me right now:
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(Yeah I know, I know, but I saw your guy's last comments and wanted to add them, and selfishly wanted this near the top of Fan Fiction to remind myself I need to make more things.)

Changes:
1: Nerfed Choreography a little to what was agreed to be closer to balanced.
2: Changed Respawn (now 10 seconds) and Resignation, by upping the damage dealt upon death, removing the insta-kill chance and making it so that Resignation can only be used every 20 seconds, as some semblance of balance for an attack dealing damage in four figures. I also made the excess spread between nearby enemies and not area damage so that he can't die to a Spiderbrood and deal 900 area damage or something equally ridiculous.
3: Added some flair to the description of his death passive. - I have half a mind to add a second passive that drains 10-20 health on each instakill, partly to kickstart the Unremitting/Inevitability cycle, but didn't at this point.

I also have a slight urge to replace Beyond Flawless with another power, and I had a flash of inspiration as to what for a second. I will update with it if I remember.

I may also go through them all and have a clear out of some of them, because it was only ever Naemon and The Abbot I was truly happy with, and that was because both got favourable feedback, I didn't have to change much and I really liked their lore :P
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm

Don't worry about addressing necromancy. We all know it's fine so long as you have tangible comments. It's the spam that makes bumping threads a bad thing.

I'll give a review tomorrow or late tonight, as I'm about to celebrate Easter with my family. :)
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:42 pm

Zaphragor should be at the bottom of the second post. I would reorganise to put the Abbot in the first and do a little revamp, but I don't really have the time or energy. If he isn;t there, I've given up and will post him tomorrow morning. :lol:

As I alluded to in the "not enough posts" thing, I'm stepping back a bit. Not for long, but enough I feel like I want to notify you kind people.

I'm currently entering my main exam period. My GCSEs are about four weeks away, and most of my waking time is spend revising or resting from revision. As such, this latest hero, while a concept I am proud of, with a backstory I'm proud of and a playstyle I hope that I have emulated and indicated well, is ultimately copied from a Mod for BFME2. He is unlike anything seen in Kingdom Rush (if Alric was balanced) ((I HOPE)) but I can't claim ownership of the idea.

Because I get home from school at 4:30 or 5:30-6 and like to spend ~2-2.5 hours a night revising, I am left with little time for eating, sleeping, breathing and relaxing. The toll on my mobile daat has been huge as I try and keep up with everything without time while near WiFi.

Anyway, I've been writing late into the night, and it hasn't been all that good for me, and while I enjoy having a purpose, at the moment the purpose of posting fan fiction to the forum pales compared to motivating myself to revise and stay motivate for exams. I played KRO not in the car for th first time in ages and really enjoyed it, far more than normal as it was unstructured. It wasn't for a purpose, and didn't require me to use my brain that is oversaturated with ideas and information already.

Yeah. Point of Ramble: I'll read and contribute a bit, but I'll be quite sepearate from the forum for the next month and a half. I have many great ideas for heroes and my first big MC in ages for afterwards, but I'll be a bit more distant for a while.
Just remember I'm always watching. Always Watching.
Always. Watching.

I'm like Baskin Robbins: I always find out.

Kind regards, The Kingmaker. :hero:
Last edited by The Kingmaker on Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:50 pm

Um, this Zaphragor isn't where you said he would be.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:46 am

Yeah I put old heroes in the first post and the abbot and Zaph in the second. :P I'll edit the update
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:47 am

Damn you fat thumbs! I tapped Edit, not quote!
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:14 pm

His massive health is eye-opening, which is really cool.

Harsh Strike, in my opinion, takes away from his playstyle. He's a tank who becomes a glass cannon by using abilities too often, but this is a very quick skill that nudges his health every couple of seconds. It seems more pesky to me than powerful like you'd want an ability to be like. Remember when I suggested that he have stronger skills with longer cooldowns to make the health drain less of a constant hinderance and more of the player's own choice, as well as give him an excuse for bigger numbers? How about this as a skill:

Bitter Blade: (18s) Zaphragor transfers 10% of his current HP into an icy blast in front of him dealing 200/400/600% of his drained HP in a short blast that freezes enemies for 2 seconds.
-Rewards players for keeping him healthy by understanding how to manage his skill usage. Also, the percentage basis means that this skill won't ever kill him.

His next skill has a cool animation, but the instant kill combined with AOE doesn't seem right to me, though I can't explain why. It should be really,cool to have that kind of versatility, but I think that it makes him seem too archetypal since every Origins hero has 1 main single-target damage skill, and this would be it. With the diagonal animation and an icy wave, it could be something similar to Plague Carriers that instead of dealing decent damage over a wide area, it explodes against a Melee target dealing heavy AOE damage. Either way, it needs more damage and a longer cooldown.

Avalanche is cool for how chaotic the multiple snow effects are, piling together on enemies for massive damage. For taking a quarter of his HP, I'd assume that it would deal more damage. I also am keen on the idea of freezing enemies unless they're a certain distance from death, which would instead deal extra damage and shatter them, but this idea doesn't have to be part of Zaphragor if you don't want it.

Need power suggestions? I've got what you need:

Frozen Wasteland: (24s) Expells 120 HP to plunge his sword into the ground, costing a lane in ice for 4/8/12 seconds that freezes enemies for 3 seconds and slows additional enemies by 20/30/50% dealing 5/10/15 damage per second.
-Enemies standing on the lane upon usage of the skill will be frozen, also taking damage over time, while enemies just getting on the lane will be slowed. Also, when Zaphragor is on the ice, he can create a sled of ice that moves him around at triple speed, similar to Elora.

His hero spell is awesome, since he now icy rains death from above as well as on the ground. I'd say that the cooldown could be made to 50 seconds, the range of the blizzard be double that of Baj'nimen's rain, the hail itself be half the size of Baj's projectiles but appear ten times per second and deal 60 True Damage each, slow enemies in range by 33%, and heal Zaphragor by 5% of the damage dealt for each bullet.

That way, the skill can't be spammed to constantly heal Zaphragor, but when it is used, it will significantly heal him when used on a large amount of enemies, dealing good damage as well as giving Zaphragor the HP to use his powers and deal even more damage.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:11 pm

Big Bad Bug wrote:Harsh Strike, in my opinion, takes away from his playstyle. He's a tank who becomes a glass cannon by using abilities too often, but this is a very quick skill that nudges his health every couple of seconds. It seems more pesky to me than powerful like you'd want an ability to be like. Remember when I suggested that he have stronger skills with longer cooldowns to make the health drain less of a constant hinderance and more of the player's own choice, as well as give him an excuse for bigger numbers? How about this as a skill:

Bitter Blade: (18s) Zaphragor transfers 10% of his current HP into an icy blast in front of him dealing 200/400/600% of his drained HP in a short blast that freezes enemies for 2 seconds.
-Rewards players for keeping him healthy by understanding how to manage his skill usage. Also, the percentage basis means that this skill won't ever kill him.

I could just up all the numbers of Harsh Strike a bit, but I do like the percentage aspect of Bitter Blade, but I'll differentiate it a bit before I add it in.
Big Bad Bug wrote:His next skill has a cool animation, but the instant kill combined with AOE doesn't seem right to me, though I can't explain why. It should be really,cool to have that kind of versatility, but I think that it makes him seem too archetypal since every Origins hero has 1 main single-target damage skill, and this would be it. With the diagonal animation and an icy wave, it could be something similar to Plague Carriers that instead of dealing decent damage over a wide area, it explodes against a Melee target dealing heavy AOE damage. Either way, it needs more damage and a longer cooldown.

I was in my less imaginative period of hero-making when this came up. I made the animation idea and tried to make soething fit it. I don't like straight-up instakills, so this became it. Single-target with AoE offshoot was one of the two ideas I was tossing up for the fourth ability, but neither it nor his passive that lowers health costs the lower his health is were finished at the point when I just decided to stop putting it off and post him.
Big Bad Bug wrote:Avalanche is cool for how chaotic the multiple snow effects are, piling together on enemies for massive damage. For taking a quarter of his HP, I'd assume that it would deal more damage. I also am keen on the idea of freezing enemies unless they're a certain distance from death, which would instead deal extra damage and shatter them, but this idea doesn't have to be part of Zaphragor if you don't want it.

I was nervous about piling on the numbers and going overboard as I have pretty exclusively before, but more damage and a shatter I like. The shatter I'll take on if you dont mind.
Big Bad Bug wrote:Frozen Wasteland: (24s) Expells 120 HP to plunge his sword into the ground, costing a lane in ice for 4/8/12 seconds that freezes enemies for 3 seconds and slows additional enemies by 20/30/50% dealing 5/10/15 damage per second.
-Enemies standing on the lane upon usage of the skill will be frozen, also taking damage over time, while enemies just getting on the lane will be slowed. Also, when Zaphragor is on the ice, he can create a sled of ice that moves him around at triple speed, similar to Elora.
I dislike the sled as it personally would be a bit out of place on such a tough guy as him. The skill is cool, and is sort of what I wanted for the area freeze before I added to insta-kill to it.
Big Bad Bug wrote:His hero spell is awesome, since he now icy rains death from above as well as on the ground. I'd say that the cooldown could be made to 50 seconds, the range of the blizzard be double that of Baj'nimen's rain, the hail itself be half the size of Baj's projectiles but appear ten times per second and deal 60 True Damage each, slow enemies in range by 33%, and heal Zaphragor by 5% of the damage dealt for each bullet.
Cooldown to be increased. There are no numbers anywhere for Baj'Nimen's rain, so I'll make up some.

My idea for the final ability was essentially Frozen Wasteland, or a passive that lowers health costs the lower his health is, (but not to the point where he can't kill himself)
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:50 pm

Poll is here now :D

I how to update/make more heroes at some point, but I don't have much inspiration atm
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:33 pm

Naemon is my favorite, but Thicket certainly comes close. :D
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:46 pm

Why thank you Ninja.

I also hereby express a possible intention to split the heroes in this thread.
Another thread may be begun purely for the more comedic heroes and this thread remain for the serious (but still odd) ones

But starting a funny oddity thread may put lots of pressure on my comedic talents...
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:21 am

I didn't add the Abbot or Zaphragor to the Poll, so they are there now.

I feel like I might begin writing for fun again soon. I have budding ideas for about three MC's and two heroes that would fit in this thread.

So yeah, get hype for hypothetical promises for the future that I may break :D
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:59 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:So yeah, get hype for hypothetical promises for the future that I may break :D


Hype! :yey:

(Also, Zaphragor and the Abbot still aren't in the poll. ;) )
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:35 pm

Ninja wrote:
The Kingmaker wrote:So yeah, get hype for hypothetical promises for the future that I may break :D


Hype! :yey:

(Also, Zaphragor and the Abbot still aren't in the poll. ;) )

Shh
Shh
Shh
Hush now child
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:42 pm

Update:
Saq'ra and Erqu, the foreign deities have flown in to aid us :yey:

I was very unhappy when I re-read Zaphragor and removed him, but also because I reached max numbers in the poll

My eyes are next looking at splitting the heroes in this thread, probably keeping the "oddities" for now, at least until I reach 10 oddity heroes, at which point I will move on to Oddities V2 or something with a different name. I will probably begin a second thread for the more light-hearted heroes like Bruunhilde and Thicket, but it may feel a bit barren with only two heroes so I might add some of the other heroes from here also or add in souped-up older versions of heroes.
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:03 pm

Do you really need to have every hero in the poll? Unless you found a major design flaw when reading over Zaphragor again, I don't see why he had to go. ;)

(I'll try and review this/these new hero/es tomorrow. :))
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:07 am

He was missing one ability entirely, his lore was too bulky and superfluous and he didn't match the quality I've tried to achieve with my heroes since I hit a jackpot with Naemon
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Ninja » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:14 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:He was missing one ability entirely, his lore was too bulky and superfluous and he didn't match the quality I've tried to achieve with my heroes since I hit a jackpot with Naemon


Oh, I never noticed the missing ability. :lol:
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by Big Bad Bug » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:38 pm

Cool, cool, and cool! :hero:

As always, the lore is my favorite part. I think it goes without saying that you always find a way to balance new and highly-developed ideas without making them complex to the point of boredom, and find a way to tie them into the already-existing story.

Having 2 separate attacks rose some skepticism in me because R&R's worst quality was how Razz would inturrupt Rags' AOE with his ranged attacks, but from what I understand, this is an improvement, as they attack at the same time amd independently from each other so that nothing is inturrupted.

Rising Sun is an epic name for an epic skill, but I have 2 big issues with it. The first is that the hero has to be near slain enemies to get the benefit of damage. I really get frustrated using Captain Blackthorne because I want to get as much gold as possible and move him around to try and get the Looting bonus from every enemy that I can. I would do the same with this hero knowing that I can infinitely stack damage, and end up moving them around all the time and gathering solar power instead of using abilities.

The second problem is that with abilities being recharged and how slow but strong each skill is, power usage will matter much more than base attacks (once again like R&R) which makes a damage and health passive rather UP since it won't come into play much. I would recommend taking out that bonus and focusing solely on skill recharge, making that category more powerful and further emphasizing a playstyle based around using extremely powerful skills to wipe out the majority of enemies.

Ability visuals have never been so good before the creation of Wind Sun. I would love to see that in a video game so badly. :hero: I was first expecting this skill to be a hurricane sent down the lane, much like the Archmage's twister. Instead, it's a magical hurricane that sticks to one enemy. It's a neat idea since it keeps the damage focused on a target, but I can't help but feel that if it traveled on its own and caused unbridled destruction, it would match the epic, powerful qualities set up by the animation of summoning the winds that you've described. Maybe it could slow down enemies so that they would stay in the AOE for longer, keeping part of the idea of keeping enemies in the AOE, but without tracking a single target.

Earth Sun is a really awesome skill. It does more damage based on how much initial damage it does, which benefits players who use these heavy, risky skills very well. There are no negative critiques that I can give to this.

The final elemental sun skill reminds me of the first: It deals the most damage to a single target, but also causes harm to nearby enemies. It serves it's purpose and looks really cool, and since the output of the skill doesn't clash with how the power is summoned, I also don't have anything bad to say about it. :D

Although cool, the hero spell is a little overkill. Only Dark Pact has that long of a cooldown, and it lasts for 30 seconds. 840 AOE damage is too much anyways, as Twilight Evokers and Scourgers don't have as much hp even on Veteran. Something between this damage and Eridan's hero spell which can barely kill a full health Harrasser would make it less rarely used while still having the huge impact that you want it to have. I really like the continuity between uses of the spell; it makes it much more interactive and thus equally more fun to use. :mrgreen:

A very, very solid hero. :hero:
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Re: Kingmaker's hero Oddities.

by The Kingmaker » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:50 pm

My thanks again about the lore, it's probably my favourite part as I do it last and get to run wild.

The spell is called Solar Sacrifice not Riding Sun because it's referencing the Aztec ritual of stabbing removed hearts. But rising sun is a damn cool ability name, if I wasn't so rigid about the ability names I'd change it to that. The other three active abilities are named as they are because they are 3 of the 5 suns in Aztec creation myth, (giant sun, wind sun, fire sun, flood sun and Earth sun) and were made to reference those :P

I see the same issue with the passive too, but I thought making it global would be a bit OP. Also I can see here that the stop between ability use isn't reset by movement, as long as Erqu and Saq'ra have attacked once each and an ability is off cooldown, the ability may be used. If Saq'ra attacks first and then is moved, Erqu eill then attack first, allowing an ability to be used.

I could see that ability recharge would be the major factor when I was building up the abilities because I gave them such a cooldown, thus added the Innate to aid in that immediately, while the passive slowly lowered the overall cool downs, to the point where in the final stage of a level the pit could have abilities with cool downs shorter than the ability stop.

Originally the hurricane was free and unbridled, but I wanted something different for the third use of the same animation, thus tracking an enemy worked. I thought of a slow as well, but I didn't want to over complicate.
My thanks about the other two abilities

I always try and relate to the existing hero spells when creating my own, for instance Bruuhilde's Valkyries are essentially Denas' guard, but with better stats and an ability, thus a slightly longer cooldown. None of the existing hero spells deal flat AoE thus I had little to directly compare to, that's the excuse anyway. I agree to tone down both the damage and a little of the cooldown. I may also increase the duration in which the first sun draws in killed enemies to give the second explosion more potential punch. This also relates to the same creation myth btw, and I'll explain my thought process.
So Aztec creation denotes we are in the fifth iteration of a world. The fifth "sun", the previous four having been destroyed in interesting ways that made the other three active abilities. The myth denotes that to create this fifth and final sun, the strongest God was supposed to jump on a pure and sacrifice himself, but faltered at the last second. A quite and meek God took the leap instead, becoming our sun. Humbled and shamed, the strongest God cast himself onto the fire to be oen the moon, hence the dual nature and delay of the hero spell. Because of this mishap, the Aztecs believed they had to cut out and burn a heart every day so that the God who became the sun would cause the sun to shine the next day, hence the passive skill.

:D :D :D
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