Do these 2 game relate to KR?

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Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by gultog » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:58 pm

Sorry if anyone asked this question (or if you think this is stupid) :P
I have seen 2 games in ArmorGames.com with same concept art with Kingdom Rush. At first I though that those games and KR has the same author, but then I know it's not. Anyone please tell me why these games seem familiar each other like that? Beside is links of those 2 games:
http://armorgames.com/play/12524/necronator-2
http://armorgames.com/play/12525/last-castle-beta
P/S: These 3 is the games that I love ^^
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Vanzen » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:43 pm

They don't have anything to do with Kingdom Rush, maybe the artists use similar techniques i dunno. Both are great games, very polished and maybe the cartoon look could make them look similar but the styles are different. :)
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Julian » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:30 pm

It's really weird how much necronator 2 looks like Kingdom Rush!
The look of the save system, the look of the map screen (thropies = achievements, follow us, back to menu), the shield system which is similar to the star system, the challenges and the 'loading screen' from going, for example, to the menu to the map screen are all so similar. I mean, check the story of the first level:
Greetings great general!
There has been reports of attack on one of
our villages! The king has requested that
you must take your troops and investigate
this at once!
Good luck general!

This must be based on Kingdom Rush ._.
(no worries Magnus I like your story way better :D)

EDIT: Played it a bit more, the similarities go on and on.
The auto-pause, the way instructions are given, the way achievements which you just got are shown, 'to battle!', 'for the KING!', etc.
+ http://i39.tinypic.com/1qk4ft.jpg
Fun game though, love the music and the way you pick up coins =)
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by dimumurray » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:38 pm

I'm calling it like I see it. Necronator 2 is a nothing more than an imitation of KR. At least they didn't rip directly from source like other so-called developers. The basic concept of Tower Defense has been around for a while, but at the very least try to make it original. Yeesh!!

Last Castle is pretty cool, especially given its co-op play elements. Pity the beta no longer seems to work.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Epicazeroth » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:57 pm

necronator is nothing like kr. its not even td. though they did mix up like 5 different worlds in one game, so thats kinda weird.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Epicazeroth » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:08 am

dimumurray wrote:I'm calling it like I see it. Necronator 2 is a nothing more than an imitation of KR.

i saw your post on their forum or whatever it is. they have a skill tree. so what? its not even like kr's. it branches. also, necronator 1 came out before kr, so they cant possibly have commited copyright infringment.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by dimumurray » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:36 am

Epicazeroth wrote:i saw your post on their forum or whatever it is. they have a skill tree. so what? its not even like kr's. it branches. also, necronator 1 came out before kr, so they cant possibly have commited copyright infringment.


Play the game through. They copied so many interface elements from KR its not even funny. Necronator 1 may have come out before KR. But its quite clear that the user interface of Necronator 2 was heavily influenced by KR. Hell, their units even have similar sound bytes (albeit as text bubbles). Sorry but I cannot respect a game developer that copies content from another game without at least giving due credit.
And while it may not warrant the time, effort and money Ironhide does have a viable case if they sought to pursue it.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by gultog » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:12 am

There are many things like Kingdom Rush from Necronator 2, you can see Julian's post to know which. And I hope that you REALLY play Necronator 2 to see why I called it "very like". If you think Necronator 1 released before KR, try to play that previous game, it's not like Necronator 2 anything on concept :P

About Last Castle Beta, the way they draw character like KR alot, I can't think other than "Ah KR's artist make that game become multiplayer". The way small character, the way 3 level light color, the way they yell when we order... is based on KR.

The bigges thing I love about these 3 games is that they still develop, many more fun stuff will be added soon ^^
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Quest » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:44 am

i think necronator 2 copied a lot of elements from KR except the gameplay lol. when i was playing it, i did go "this is like KR!" but it didnt strike me hard enough to make a forum topic. in fact, i didnt play past the 1st boss lvl. the gameplay didnt suck me in as well as KR.
one thing i liked over KR is that their talent tree had branches. one thing i hate over KR is that their premium content was "overloaded". it seems like to play a complete game, u need to go premium. another thing was that controlling the units was a nightmare for me.

imitation is a form of flattery. the KR devs can use this example to really find out what are the best elements other devs thought KR has. i thought KR is going to be a new trendsetter when it 1st came out. i literally went "this game is too good to be free". looks like KR will continue to heavily influence future flash games.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Julian » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:40 pm

Necronator 2 just released premium content:

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Oh come on x] Even darth vader (dark invader :D) is there!
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Epicazeroth » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:35 pm

first, none of u know for sure necronator 2 copied, maybe they were just influenced. second, this isnt nearly as imprtant as what my yayi did even though they took it down.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Julian » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:11 pm

So what, the resemblances are still funny :D
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by dimumurray » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:04 pm

Epicazeroth wrote:first, none of u know for sure necronator 2 copied, maybe they were just influenced. second, this isnt nearly as imprtant as what my yayi did even though they took it down.

Of course they copied. The sliding panel intro (granted theirs slide vertically instead of horizontally but the wooden panel design is the same). The unit skins. The sound bytes. Even the general color scheme across levels are similar. Looking at the screen-shots of the later levels here, the colors mimic KR quite closely. And the similarities go on and on without end. Every time you play the thing you find something else they took from KR. At first I would have said this was heavily influenced but the more I play it the more I think this thing is bordering on theft. Its only saving grace is that a good chunk of the game mechanics are different. But make no mistake this thing is packaged to look and feel like KR.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by dimumurray » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:06 pm

Julian wrote:Necronator 2 just released premium content:

Image

Oh come on x] Even darth vader (dark invader :D) is there!


These guys better look elsewhere. I'm not giving them one red cent. They haven't earned it.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by gultog » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:31 am

If KR don't have update soon and N2 keep introduce new campaign, then KR will be though as the mimic. I say serious, because the bigger will make gamer think that the smaller is mimic. And N2 can keep update campaign easily, because make the campain in rush will be very easy, much easier than make a map for KR. If you want to see more, just try to play that game and you will know why I said that they made the campaign in RUSH.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Strogglet15 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:20 pm

Holy Guacalome! Necronator 2!

*looks at prenium content*

Holy Guacalome! Necronator!
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Craixis » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:41 pm

Hey Dim, you do know Infectionator used a point buy system right?
And you do know that Toge were the guys who did Infectionator? (Look at the author of Necronator, same company)
Oh and hey, their first Necronator game had the "vertical sliding wooden gate" that kingdom rush uses (granted, Kingdom Rush's was horizontal). Oh, they also did the artwork for "Crush the Castle", which looks very similar to the art style they're using now.
http://armorgames.com/play/12044/crush-the-castle-td
(which, going off of the armor games release dates for strategy games, came out before KR).

So they used similar interface elements (not a direct copy, they use a different lay out and fonts, and ultimately their interface is different) and a similar looking art style (again, they are using their own style, which looks similar, but is not). So many of your arguments are invalid, because many of their design choices may have been based on previous works...
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by dimumurray » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:55 pm

Craixis wrote:Hey Dim, you do know Infectionator used a point buy system right?
And you do know that Toge were the guys who did Infectionator? (Look at the author of Necronator, same company)
Oh and hey, their first Necronator game had the "vertical sliding wooden gate" that kingdom rush uses (granted, Kingdom Rush's was horizontal). Oh, they also did the artwork for "Crush the Castle", which looks very similar to the art style they're using now.
http://armorgames.com/play/12044/crush-the-castle-td
(which, going off of the armor games release dates for strategy games, came out before KR).

So they used similar interface elements (not a direct copy, they use a different lay out and fonts, and ultimately their interface is different) and a similar looking art style (again, they are using their own style, which looks similar, but is not). So many of your arguments are invalid, because many of their design choices may have been based on previous works...

I've give you that one about the sliding gates, but the art style they used in N2, especially when it comes to character and interface art bears more of a resemblance to KR than any of their previous games. Stylistically, their previous games seem to be either pixel-art(infectornator, NR1) or highly rendered(CTC-TD). Yet the vector-art based minimalist approach which is a hallmark of all of Ironhide's games is quite evident (for character and interface art) in the NR sequel. That's no coincidence. And again I point to their palette choices across levels, the color scheme patterns KR almost exactly. NR2 may not play like KR and is qualitatively a poor substitute but boy did they try to make it look like KR.
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Epicazeroth » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:09 pm

Ok, dimumurray, wouldu sue if someone had the same haircut or clothes as you? So then y should iron hide sue if the game looks similar. If all games had to look different, then how many games do you think there would be?
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Re: Do these 2 game relate to KR?

by Craixis » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:12 am

Dim, can I ask you something? Are you using a PC with Windows on it?

If yes:
Then you're a hypocrite, because Mac was the first to design a GUI (Graphical User Interface). Do you know what a GUI is? A GUI is the whole reason we're able to game on a computer, before the GUI came along, everything was done in "Command Line", or nothing but text on a screen and keyboard commands. Then Apple came along and released the Apple 2, which was the first computer to use a Graphical User Interface (which Microsoft then copied for Windows).

If no:
Then why are you using a Mac? You're not in the business of design, so you obviously don't understand that it's common for companies to copy successful interface layouts and to try and improve on them. It's the nature of design, you look at the assembly line. According to your logic, no one should've used it outside of Ford, or changed it. Hell, even Edison and the Lightbulb, we shouldn't of even thought about reusing the working elements of the lightbulb and try to improve upon it, I mean, someone designed it first, why even bother dealing with it?

For the interface, it's the same argument, you know how many FPS games have very similar layouts, outside of a small graphical change to fit the art style (which I'll argue again, CtCTD had the monster sprites that look almost exactly like the models their using now, they fit better on a vector background, which may had been suggested and which may be the reason for the massive change). You notice that the layout still matches their previous games, however. The only thing that "copies" KR is that they created a colour palette that was similar to KR's style (again, they art style they're using is based off of the Villain Sprites of CtCTD, look at them, they're almost identical except one is pixelated while the other is vector).

Let's take a look at both interfaces:

Opening Screens: Completely different, I see no similarities.
Colour choices for Background image: Different (N2 is Darker, more Gloomy)
Button Layout: Completely Different, N2 has more options on the opening Screen and all the buttons are on the main menu
Login Screen: N2 covers the whole screen and moved the background image to the right (you notice the Orc's in the middle now instead of on the left, but they walled off the sides with wood for the game saves)
Buttons: Buttons have similar shading on the inside, which is a common illusion used by many interface designers, different colour scheme and text choice, again, different.
Map Screens:
Just from opening, They have buttons on the bottom, only thing similar (KR has strict maplike colors outside of flags, N2 has color for places on the map, their Flags area a different style) Upgrade Screens are completely different, not gonna bother opening them.

In game interface: Again, nothing similar, backgrounds in both games changes constantly depending on location, you are bound to have some colour match ups just through chance (there are only so many ways you can make a "happy forest").

Text choice and button design are different. Layout for interface, different (Look at them, what is similar outside "the art style is minimalist vector", which if you look at N2, their is still focusing on more details. The trees are more detailed, the buildings are more detailed, the units... again, more detailed. KR gave up extreme detail for a cartoonier look, while N2 is cartoony, it's still much more detailed then KR's units).

Wait, so what are you complaining about? Their colours are similar near the end of the game, is that it? Really? Because if you actually LOOK at the styles, you'll see major differences not only in how they choose to layout the game, but also navigation, the details they put into their sprites, and the style they choose to use (which, once again, comes from CtCTD).

They're both Vector Interfaces, that's the only thing that Toge did to make it similar KR, and even then they went a different direction (instead of keeping it simple and cute, they went into detail).
Their sprite style resembles more of FF Tactics and the like then KR... Isometric, you can see the "minor" details on their shield (while KR smaller joints and parts are either not showing on the model or faded away), etc. My avatar has a KR style to it, and even then, there are simple design choices that make it different (again, I go into much more detail with my avatar sprite). Just because they're both vector based doesn't mean they're the same, you can't tell me that DBZ and Full Metal Panic are the exact same style (they're both Manga, yeah, but they both have major design differences).

Really, I fail to see what you're arguing about Dim, you're making a fuss over what, a color choice that happened to be similar? The fact that they're both Vector based games? (oh god, it's not like Flash is a vector based program!) N2 is hardly minimalist, look at the models and tell me that's minimalist... actually look (you can see the details on the shield, the wood lines, the tabards are the only thing that lack detail, you look at the Human Knight and you can see the breastplate with a chest outline on it).
I mean, I would like to have that kind've motivation, but really... What are you so worked up about?
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