Flash, Android, Steam, and other delays

[delebru]

I understand all your frustration but it really isn't easy for us. We were able to release the iOS version before flash because two new iOS programmers came in while Lito is still the only one working with the flash version (and he has many other tasks asides from programming flash). After iOS was done, lito got all he's "free" time to finish flash and the whole team kept on working with the next ideas we had in mind. We were not going to tell all the programmers to not do their work because flash wasn't ready yet, though I understand how frustrated you can be feeling...

This week a new guy came in to help with flash's programming and we're advancing faster, but as usual we won't say when it will be out simply because WE DON'T KNOW. (The iOS version had an official release date only AFTER it was finished).

The Android version is a port from iOS (we won't re-write the whole code ) and we've been having some setbacks lately. Hopefully next week we'll be able to accelerate it's development.

The Steam version is almost done (no Blackburn yet), we're testing it everyday to achieve a polished build.

Please don't take any conclusions from this because you'll probably end up with lots of fake expectations... I'm just trying to keep you guys up to date. Every time we announce a date or an expected release time we fail big time, that's why we try not to do it

We also got some friends to help us with the buzz at our communities, that's why you see so many social posts from us . They are in constant communication with us so they do represent our voice.

Our largest motivation to release Frontiers to flash is our fan-base

[TheChosenOne]

Its not hard to communicate without mentioning dates. It doesn't cost a lot of time either.

Or just say you target a certain Q or month but it may be later. Communication is key. I've backed over 200 Kickstarters so I know a little communication can go a long way in keeping your customers happy.

[TheeCount]

I understand all your frustration but it really isn't easy for us. We were able to release the iOS version before flash because two new iOS programmers came in while Lito is still the only one working with the flash version (and he has many other tasks asides from programming flash). After iOS was done, lito got all he's "free" time to finish flash and the whole team kept on working with the next ideas we had in mind. We were not going to tell all the programmers to not do their work because flash wasn't ready yet, though I understand how frustrated you can be feeling...

This week a new guy came in to help with flash's programming and we're advancing faster, but as usual we won't say when it will be out simply because WE DON'T KNOW. (The iOS version had an official release date only AFTER it was finished).

The Android version is a port from iOS (we won't re-write the whole code ) and we've been having some setbacks lately. Hopefully next week we'll be able to accelerate it's development.

The Steam version is almost done (no Blackburn yet), we're testing it everyday to achieve a polished build.

Please don't take any conclusions from this because you'll probably end up with lots of fake expectations... I'm just trying to keep you guys up to date. Every time we announce a date or an expected release time we fail big time, that's why we try not to do it

We also got some friends to help us with the buzz at our communities, that's why you see so many social posts from us . They are in constant communication with us so they do represent our voice.

Our largest motivation to release Frontiers to flash is our fan-base

Thanks for the update. For me, the new "Flash guy" is good news. Hopefully he is dedicated to the Flash port of KRF which would mean that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[TITANICB]

I understand all your frustration but it really isn't easy for us. We were able to release the iOS version before flash because two new iOS programmers came in while Lito is still the only one working with the flash version (and he has many other tasks asides from programming flash). After iOS was done, lito got all he's "free" time to finish flash and the whole team kept on working with the next ideas we had in mind. We were not going to tell all the programmers to not do their work because flash wasn't ready yet, though I understand how frustrated you can be feeling...

This week a new guy came in to help with flash's programming and we're advancing faster, but as usual we won't say when it will be out simply because WE DON'T KNOW. (The iOS version had an official release date only AFTER it was finished).

The Android version is a port from iOS (we won't re-write the whole code ) and we've been having some setbacks lately. Hopefully next week we'll be able to accelerate it's development.

The Steam version is almost done (no Blackburn yet), we're testing it everyday to achieve a polished build.

Please don't take any conclusions from this because you'll probably end up with lots of fake expectations... I'm just trying to keep you guys up to date. Every time we announce a date or an expected release time we fail big time, that's why we try not to do it

We also got some friends to help us with the buzz at our communities, that's why you see so many social posts from us . They are in constant communication with us so they do represent our voice.

Our largest motivation to release Frontiers to flash is our fan-base

Can you guys release the Steam version without Blackburn first, and then have Blackburn as a future update for the game?

(Rather than delaying the entire game until Blackburn is complete)

[conorbebe]

I understand all your frustration but it really isn't easy for us. We were able to release the iOS version before flash because two new iOS programmers came in while Lito is still the only one working with the flash version (and he has many other tasks asides from programming flash). After iOS was done, lito got all he's "free" time to finish flash and the whole team kept on working with the next ideas we had in mind. We were not going to tell all the programmers to not do their work because flash wasn't ready yet, though I understand how frustrated you can be feeling...

This week a new guy came in to help with flash's programming and we're advancing faster, but as usual we won't say when it will be out simply because WE DON'T KNOW. (The iOS version had an official release date only AFTER it was finished).

The Android version is a port from iOS (we won't re-write the whole code ) and we've been having some setbacks lately. Hopefully next week we'll be able to accelerate it's development.

The Steam version is almost done (no Blackburn yet), we're testing it everyday to achieve a polished build.

Please don't take any conclusions from this because you'll probably end up with lots of fake expectations... I'm just trying to keep you guys up to date. Every time we announce a date or an expected release time we fail big time, that's why we try not to do it

We also got some friends to help us with the buzz at our communities, that's why you see so many social posts from us . They are in constant communication with us so they do represent our voice.

Our largest motivation to release Frontiers to flash is our fan-base

Can you guys release the Steam version without Blackburn first, and then have Blackburn as a future update for the game?

(Rather than delaying the entire game until Blackburn is complete)

I think doing that would just anger people more. I'd expect to see messages saying things like "I waited all this time and the game isn't even finished yet!" or "Wheres Castle Blackburn? You promised it would be in the game you liars!".

[truteal]

Not to mention "I've already done all these things on IOS/Flash!"

[SilasLock]

He kind of has a point, but Ironhide can only do so much. They released the iOS version first (to the best of my knowledge) because it just happened to be done before the flash version. Not intentional. Also, Ironhide isn't a super big corporation. They can only release games when they are ready, which means that the steam version and flash version are clearly not yet done. As long as we're patient and don't tell them to do things that they physically can't do (like make games faster) then I'm sure they'll be released some time soon.

[TITANICB]

I would think totally the opposite. Releasing the game next month and then castle blackburn as an update in october would piss more people off than just releasing the entire thing in October? I think not.

[Phestus]

So, from what I understand the loads of money they made off of premium upgrades that flash players bought went to hire a pair pf iOS programmers who ported KR1 to iOS. Then they never looked back. Next these 2 programmers work on the iOS version of KR2 and get it ready for release, and the original 3 Ironhide developers who made the KR1 flash version sit around drinking coffee and counting money, while an intern or someone works on the KR2 flash version in addition to "numerous other tasks?"

That is awesome. Thanks for painting a clear picture of what is wrong with the game development world right now. People like you guys spend your time and resources catering to soccer moms that play Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja while in line at Starbucks for their soy latte, and everyone wonders why nobody makes good games anymore.

[SilasLock]

So, from what I understand the loads of money they made off of premium upgrades that flash players bought went to hire a pair pf iOS programmers who ported KR1 to iOS. Then they never looked back. Next these 2 programmers work on the iOS version of KR2 and get it ready for release, and the original 3 Ironhide developers who made the KR1 flash version sit around drinking coffee and counting money, while an intern or someone works on the KR2 flash version in addition to "numerous other tasks?"

That is awesome. Thanks for painting a clear picture of what is wrong with the game development world right now. People like you guys spend your time and resources catering to soccer moms that play Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja while in line at Starbucks for their soy latte, and everyone wonders why nobody makes good games anymore.

Umm, no. That's not what Ironhide is doing. They're actually working on the flash version right now, and I'm pretty sure they aren't sitting around counting money. Could you try saying stuff with a little less venom in your voice?

[Hunterninjacat]

I disagree. Ironhide may not be doing flash first, because the mobile application market is where the money is at. Flash really doesn't generate giant amounts of revenue. Just be happy there WILL be a flash KRF, because I don't think it would kill Ironhide if they stopped making a flash version. (Don't get me wrong, I love flash games and all, and IK some of you can only play the flash version, but don't complain. People don't want to hear it.)

[SilasLock]

But Delebru said they're working on flash right now in a post right along this thread! I don't pretend to know WHEN its coming out, but I do know that they are working on it and most certainly not sitting around counting money.

[Chimto]

Every time someone whines about the Flash version Ironhide pushes the release date back by a week. So, you know what to do.

[midgetjedi]

The OP mirrors my sentiment 100%. I am an avid tower defense player, have been for years. I played KR since its first appearance on Armor Games and again on Kongregate, paying for upgrades on both sites. I have supported this company from day 1, and have patiently waited for KR2 devouring all news in anticipation.

However, to make more money and faster, they decided to slap the face of their oldest and most loyal fans to make a quick buck off of people with iPhones, going as far as to give them updates before giving us a game we have literally been waiting 2 years to see.

Not only will I not be purchasing anything else from Ironhide, I wont be playing KR2 at all, and wont support them on Armor, Kong, or Steam. They can follow in the footsteps of George Lucas, Blizzard, and countless others that ignored the fanbase that made them successful to make a quick buck.

In the end, I know how it will turn out. Nothing new here really, the brand new iOS fans wont stick around...they are fickle, like terrible games like Fruit Ninja, and get bored easily. But angry PC gamers don't forget. Release late is fine, release on another format first is fine, but dont waste resources updating for the iOS people without giving US a firm date, or it is a complete slap in the face.

Bye-bye Ironhide. Good luck and thanks for the KR memories.

This guy nailed it 100% for me. Well said!

[euxinus]

For a group of people that can create such a polished, immensely fun game such as Kingdom Rush, their communication skills and release "strategies" (if they can be called that) are horrible.

An update for iWhatever before the Flash release? Seriously? Do they not heed their fan base? Their Facebook page is dominated by comments from irate Flash fans. The Steam Greenlight page is getting agitated. People on these official boards ponder the Flash release daily.

And Ironhide says, basically, "You people don't matter."

Even more perplexing and frustrating is the complete lack of communication. How hard is it to type out 2-3 paragraphs informing your fanbase? And put it on the blog, where everyone can see it quickly and easily instead of dropping comments into random posts all over the web.

But no, we get constant short replies like "We're working really hard, trust us!! Stuff will be out soon, and it'll be awesome!!"

....and nothing happens until the next "We're working really hard, trust us!! Stuff will be out soon, and it'll be awesome!!" comment.

Are we supposed to keep believing you, Ironhide? Let's review:

- You announced the game would be released in Spring 2013. You mentioned nothing about it coming out on iOS first, from what I can see. This was a deliberate troll move, and Flash players are rightfully upset.

- The Steam release is stalled....or is it? Who knows, because Ironhide won't tell us. The Steam community did you a favor by greenlighting your game - and you subsequently ignore them and take ages to (allegedly) make the game.

- You're apparently going to release an update for iOS before the Flash version.

- Through all this, we, the fans who paid for your game and made it popular, have to wildly guess what the future holds for Kingdom Rush.

Again: HOW HARD IS IT TO WRITE A FEW PARAGRAPHS LETTING US KNOW WHAT'S UP? Here's how it's done: http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.ph ... us-update/

The Creeper World games are great. Creeper World 3 is stalled, yes. But the dev has posted tons on the blog, showing videos, explaining concepts that will be found in CW3, letting us in on game testing, etc. In the link above, he goes into great detail about what he's working on, why the game wasn't released earlier, what will be in the game, what won't be in the game (at least to start), and so on.

How hard is that? It won't take long, and it goes a long way towards fostering respect with your fanbase. I respect the Creeper World guy because he treats his fans like....well, fans. Ironhide says "We're working hard, trust us!!" and then leave everyone in the dark, which leads to pointless guesstimation about release dates, marketing strategies, whatever. I don't want to guess, ponder, or pensively examine what Ironhide is going to do - I want them to TELL ME.

If they release Frontiers on Flash for free, I'll play it, but I won't purchase premium or anything else. I would have gladly shelled out $20 or more for this game, but these developers have alienated their community to a ridiculous degree.

let me tell you everything in few simple words: these guys had success with this game and they mess it up, losing a big oportunity to be famous. They can release the flash version whenever they want. Theyre just looking for money dealing with IOS system.

[SilasLock]

But.. but... No!

That's really just hating on Ironhide. They're working on things as fast as they can, and just because they didn't release their awesome products in the order you want them to is no reason to get angry to the point of "never playing anything from Ironhide again." I want the flash version just as much as the next guy, but it didn't make me react like this!

Somebody, back me up on this!

[Loox]

IIRC, Frontiers was originally intended to make it to Flash first. But look at it; its massive!
Ironhide said iOS finished first so they released it. As Silas noted, Delebru explained all of this in a recent post, here:
http://www.ironhidegames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29927#p29927

Nobody at Ironhide is lying to us. Jeez. They told us the Rising Tides update was almost ready months ago!

Flash version is obviously taking a bit longer than expected. With Armorgames as publisher, don't you think Flash would come out ASAP? In fact, Delebru mentioned that they hired a second Flash programmer to speed things up even more. This cost them *money* to do. So clearly Ironhide takes its Flash fan base seriously.

Either way, these guys seem very down to Earth, legit, and obviously love what they do.

Also, Big Studios are no better. Their sequels take even longer.

Frontiers is the most polished TD game ever. Arguably one of the best, most beautiful games period. How about sending some positive energy Lito's way instead of all this hate?


be patient. Channel your inner Julian

[Ravenzilla]

I've been reading this forum for a long time and I just need to let out some rage on these complainers.

I would just like to point out all the whiny flash player complaining that their thing isn't out on this forum are people who specifically created an account just to complain that their game isn't here. It isn't here yet, woopity-fricken-doo. Ya know what else isn't here yet Elder Scrolls Online which was told to come out 2013 and they gave an even more broader release date. You don't hear anyone complaining about that now do ya. I guess the only thing bad we can say about IGS right now is that they shouldn't have gotten Flash babies hopes up cause god forbid they get a estimate wrong. So why don't you flash complainers sit down, shut up, go back to sucking on your mamas tit when you want something, and get out of these forums. You don't deserve to to play Ironhides Games.

PS. You want disappointment play Civilization Wars 1 and when you say "Gee this is great, I wonder if they would make a sequel like Ironhide Game Studios did." Go to their website and look at how far back the advertising is. Then you come back to Ironhide Game Studios and tell everyone their lazy.

PSS. Exxius, midgetman, and Phestus are probably the same person using different accounts.

[TheeCount]

So, from what I understand the loads of money they made off of premium upgrades that flash players bought went to hire a pair pf iOS programmers who ported KR1 to iOS. Then they never looked back. Next these 2 programmers work on the iOS version of KR2 and get it ready for release, and the original 3 Ironhide developers who made the KR1 flash version sit around drinking coffee and counting money, while an intern or someone works on the KR2 flash version in addition to "numerous other tasks?"

That is awesome. Thanks for painting a clear picture of what is wrong with the game development world right now. People like you guys spend your time and resources catering to soccer moms that play Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja while in line at Starbucks for their soy latte, and everyone wonders why nobody makes good games anymore.

BTW, "Lito" is not an intern. He is Pablo Realini, the guy that programmed the original KR. Also, I am not sure if you have ever owned your own business or not but it definitely does not sound like the three founders are "sitting around drinking coffee and counting money". Taking Delebru's post at face value, Pablo is putting in a full day's work and then working on the Flash port for KRF. There is an old saying that business owners get to work half days. They even get to pick which 12 hours a day they work. Also, you also make it sound like a bad idea for Ironhide to have hired iOS programmers when I think that it was a sound business decision (especially if Pablo Realini did not have IOS skills).

I really think that the biggest mistake that was made was over-estimating Pablo Realini's ability to work on the Flash release when he was also wearing other hats. They may have also underestimated the level of effort needed as well. The fact that Ironhide has hired an additional Flash resource indicates to me that they have identified this as an issue and have made the investment to address it. As a result, assuming that this resource is dedicated full-time and has some oversight/assistance from Pablo Realini, there should be consistent progress made on a daily basis towards releasing the Flash version of KRF. At this point, it will be ready when it is ready.

Finally, I take exception to your comments:

next these 2 programmers work on the iOS version of KR2 and get it ready for release, and the original 3 Ironhide developers who made the KR1 flash version sit around drinking coffee and counting money

People like you guys spend your time and resources catering to soccer moms that play Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja while in line at Starbucks for their soy latte, and everyone wonders why nobody makes good games anymore.

1) If, as you say, nobody makes good games anymore, why are you upset that you cannot play KRF? Perhaps it is because the three founders busted their butts to build on their KR success (45 million+ plays!) to make a KRF game that appears to be even better? It seems that they have created two games that are not just "good" but are truly great.

2) Is your disdain of the Angry Bird playing, iOS owning market segment really just jealousy or frustration that you are not part of that demographic? One of the businesses my wife and I own is a women's fashion boutique. Our target customers are women aged 30+ in households that make $150K or more. The reason for this is simple. They have disposable income to spend and are willing to spend it on the products that we sell. I have no idea how old you are or what you do for a living but unless you have decided to spend your life developing really "good" games in Flash to distribute for free, I find it hypocritical for you to criticize Ironhide and other game developers for attempting to maximize their earning potential.

Your criticism reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt's quote about those that criticise others that attempt great deeds:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Please let us know what you have contributed to the gaming community other than complaining that you cannot play a new game because you do not have an iPhone or iPad.

[euxinus]

lol this is a chaos here ppl get pissed and tired of waiting, we need this now.