American Elections

Anything and everything.

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Sat May 21, 2016 4:24 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:I would find Trump more funny if I was less of an actual possibility.

I think the same about Hillary Clinton.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by RaZoR LeAf » Sat May 21, 2016 5:44 pm

Trump banning muslims from the US is basically an open invitation to ISIS to attack. His assumption that because a small group of a religion want to do harm, that everyone in that religion wants to as well is a child's perspective that we grow out of when we realise things aren't always black and white. It's the same logic as "this book has a red cover and 200 pages, therefore ALL books have red covers and 200 pages".

By placing a ban on anyone that identifies as a muslim, he's basically saying that you as a person are not valued enough by the country. So the thousands of trained medical staff that would be saving your lives are banned from doing so. The military personnel that served in wars for you, are not welcome. That in turn is a dig at the terrorists that despise western ideologies. He's basically turning to the terrorists and saying "You aren't people." and that's really not a good thing to be saying when these people already want to destroy the US. Banning muslims from entering the country is going to quickly radicalise the peaceful muslims already living in the US, the ones that all of a sudden have become the enemy despite the fact that a week ago you sat next to them on the bus, were served by them in a restaurant and waved to them as a neighbour. Trump is basically creating a breeding ground for home grown terrorism.
Image
Yes it's me
User avatar
Moderator
 
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: American Elections

by Sinque Productions » Sat May 21, 2016 6:00 pm

A lot of what you just said applies to Mexicans too.

Like 0.001% of them are rapists and criminals.
The above message has been sent by The Killian Experience version of Addy.
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:10 pm
Location: Addy's secret lair.

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Sun May 22, 2016 2:44 am

"Hello Mr. Arafat. Under President Trump's new policy, I must ask you: are you a Muslim?"
"No."
"Welcome to America!"

This is why a Muslim ban would never work. Why do people refute this like it's a serious idea? Even Trump has recanted on it. But because this is a low energy explanation, I'm going to explain why a Muslim ban is not a boogeyman. I do not support a Muslim ban personally.
RaZoR LeAf wrote:Trump banning muslims from the US is basically an open invitation to ISIS to attack.

What is stopping ISIS from attacking us now, then? Will they hate us more than before if we ban Muslim immigration? Your argument boils down to "if we keep them out, they will attack us. So let them in." Which sounds ridiculous to me.
RaZoR LeAf wrote:By placing a ban on anyone that identifies as a muslim, he's basically saying that you as a person are not valued enough by the country. So the thousands of trained medical staff that would be saving your lives are banned from doing so. The military personnel that served in wars for you, are not welcome.

You've got a strawman in the first bit. A temporary ban on Muslim immigration does not tell American citizens they are not valued just because they are Muslim. It tells them that the actions of radical elements of their religion are justifying a temporary ban on immigration. If a huge terrorist organisation was part of my religion to the extent that ISIS is to Islam, I would wholeheartedly support a ban on members of my own religion from immigrating, because I believe in the safety of American citizens, first and foremost.
RaZoR LeAf wrote:That in turn is a dig at the terrorists that despise western ideologies. He's basically turning to the terrorists and saying "You aren't people." and that's really not a good thing to be saying when these people already want to destroy the US.

Good. Let's add insult to injury before we bomb them. It's not like they can hate us any more than they already do.
RaZoR LeAf wrote:Banning muslims from entering the country is going to quickly radicalise the peaceful muslims already living in the US, the ones that all of a sudden have become the enemy despite the fact that a week ago you sat next to them on the bus, were served by them in a restaurant and waved to them as a neighbour. Trump is basically creating a breeding ground for home grown terrorism.

This is disgusting and absurd. The very people who claim to be accepting of Muslims are the first to accept that they are ticking time bombs? Can you not see the hypocrisy? The assumption that well-adjusted, assimilated members of American society can be radicalized just because they are Muslim is about as Islamophobic as it gets. It is an admittance that Islam is an inherently violent religion incompatible with American values.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by Juice Box » Sun May 22, 2016 3:29 am

Zonoro wrote:
This is disgusting and absurd. The very people who claim to be accepting of Muslims are the first to accept that they are ticking time bombs? Can you not see the hypocrisy? The assumption that well-adjusted, assimilated members of American society can be radicalized just because they are Muslim is about as Islamophobic as it gets. It is an admittance that Islam is an inherently violent religion incompatible with American values.


The fuck?

Of course they'll radicalize if you kick them out. ANYONE would fight back somehow if you kicked them out of their home. It's stupid to think that they won't. Razor is just acknowledging that human nature. It's not hypocrisy at all. The fuck you going on about there.

Zonoro wrote:A temporary ban on Muslim immigration does not tell American citizens they are not valued just because they are Muslim. It tells them that the actions of radical elements of their religion are justifying a temporary ban on immigration.


Good job sugarcoating the word "racism."

I'm fine with Trump supporters because I only know a little about American politics, but lol dude, you're so so so wrong. Like x10 wrong, and I'm actually really amazed that you think you're right.
User
 
Posts: 2118
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:54 am

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Sun May 22, 2016 3:40 am

Juice Box wrote:Of course they'll radicalize if you kick them out. ANYONE would fight back somehow if you kicked them out of their home. It's stupid to think that they won't. Razor is just acknowledging that human nature. It's not hypocrisy at all. The fuck you going on about there.

When did anyone say we were kicking out Muslims? I think you're misunderstanding the point of contention. Trump's original idea, which he later discarded, was a temporary ban on immigration from Muslims.
Juice Box wrote:Good job sugarcoating the word "racism."

Good job attacking the word "patriotism".
Juice Box wrote:I'm fine with Trump supporters because I only know a little about American politics, but lol dude, you're so so so wrong. Like x10 wrong, and I'm actually really amazed that you think you're right.

"I think you're wrong but I don't know why. "
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by Juice Box » Sun May 22, 2016 3:47 am

Zonoro13 wrote:When did anyone say we were kicking out Muslims? I think you're misunderstanding the point of contention. Trump's original idea, which he later discarded, was a temporary ban on immigration from Muslims.


That's what I meant. Point still stands, just replace a few of my words. It's not hypocrisy to think that Muslims won't get mad, it's a normal reaction. Thinking it's hypocrisy is just wrong.

Zonoro wrote:Good job attacking the word "patriotism".


There's a fine line between upholding your own people and bringing down others. I'm not sure you realize that.
Zonoro wrote:"I think you're wrong but I don't know why. "


Lol atleast I'm not a racist :b .
User
 
Posts: 2118
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:54 am

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Sun May 22, 2016 4:09 am

Juice Box wrote:That's what I meant. Point still stands, just replace a few of my words. It's not hypocrisy to think that Muslims won't get mad, it's a normal reaction. Thinking it's hypocrisy is just wrong.

TIL getting mad = terrorism :o
Juice Box wrote:There's a fine line between upholding your own people and bringing down others. I'm not sure you realize that.

Which is exactly why I don't like the plan.
Juice Box wrote:Lol atleast I'm not a racist :b .

Nice ad hom :P
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by warbot1000 » Sun May 22, 2016 5:32 am

Zonoro13 wrote:What is stopping ISIS from attacking us now, then? Will they hate us more than before if we ban Muslim immigration? Your argument boils down to "if we keep them out, they will attack us. So let them in." Which sounds ridiculous to me.

No the people that you kick out will be annoyed and rightfully so leading to a minority of them becoming radical due to their unfair treatment.

Zonoro13 wrote:You've got a strawman in the first bit. A temporary ban on Muslim immigration does not tell American citizens they are not valued just because they are Muslim. It tells them that the actions of radical elements of their religion are justifying a temporary ban on immigration. If a huge terrorist organisation was part of my religion to the extent that ISIS is to Islam, I would wholeheartedly support a ban on members of my own religion from immigrating, because I believe in the safety of American citizens, first and foremost.

This is exactly what it does. Telling a whole religion that they can't be in your country even if they have been loyal Americans for generations just because they are muslims is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You are saying that the small amount of muslims that are in ISIS are large enough to warrant a whole religion being banned from a country for no reason except that some crazy people are claiming to be part of their religion and using it as a excuse for war. That's like if you were forced to leave your country because someone in your school was murderer. You haven't done anything and you are in no way connected to the murderer except for the fact that they were in your school but you get forced out of America. That's just a idiotic way to justify a stupid course of action.
Zonoro13 wrote:Good. Let's add insult to injury before we bomb them. It's not like they can hate us any more than they already do.

You aren't insulting ISIS just the millions of muslims who live in America and are being forced out unfairly. If anything this shows how terrified trump is of ISIS and how he regards them as such a big threat that he would remove roughly 1 out of every hundred people in America.

Zonoro13 wrote:
RaZoR LeAf wrote:Banning muslims from entering the country is going to quickly radicalise the peaceful muslims already living in the US, the ones that all of a sudden have become the enemy despite the fact that a week ago you sat next to them on the bus, were served by them in a restaurant and waved to them as a neighbour. Trump is basically creating a breeding ground for home grown terrorism.


This is disgusting and absurd. The very people who claim to be accepting of Muslims are the first to accept that they are ticking time bombs? Can you not see the hypocrisy? The assumption that well-adjusted, assimilated members of American society can be radicalized just because they are Muslim is about as Islamophobic as it gets. It is an admittance that Islam is an inherently violent religion incompatible with American values.

The people who claim to be fair and live in the land of the free and are kicking out a large amount of their people who have done nothing aren't hypocrites? The well-adjusted and assimilated members of American society are turned into refugees who have to leave the country which they might have lived in for the whole of their lives because of some old man who is scared of ISIS is both dumb and frustrating for every muslim in the world. Razor is in no way saying that islam is an inherently violent religion. He is saying that if you kick out thousands of people some of them will radicalise. If you kicked trump out of America then I am sure he would so everything he could to annoy and harm America, not by killing people but by moving business and taking away jobs ect. You want to kick millions of normal rational calm people out of their homes and expect none of them to do anything. That is absurd. You are also the only person here who has called islam an violent religion and said that "If a huge terrorist organisation was part of my religion to the extent that ISIS is to Islam," that ISIS is representative of islam which seems pretty islamophobic to me.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

That is a quote from the human rights act and banning muslims from America is against this. So I guess America is in no way the land of the free if people there are stripped of one of their rights. This is not patriotic to the beliefs the country way founded so stop using patriotism as an excuse to do whatever you want and justify anything.

my ideas
http://www.ironhidegames.com/forums/vie ... =15&t=4760
I am master of the elements, student of goku and digimon king
My friends an I fight for good beware of warbot the humanrobot!!

If its not JB its not right!
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:26 pm
Location: a Magical place over the rainbow ENGLAND

Re: American Elections

by The Kingmaker » Sun May 22, 2016 6:22 am

I don't honk any of us understand the point Razor was trying to make and how right he is.

There is only one "Islam", (as opposed to the ~5+ main strands of Christianity) but different areas teach different ideologies and use different parts of the Qu'ran. There are some Imams who believe in the new version of Jihad, and believe in violence and attacking the west. This number is tiny. But because of the outpouring of hatred towards Muslims, young impressionable people go to these Imams, and what they say makes sense. They then become radicalised and go on to plot and sometimes carry out attacks.

Shunning and isolating Muslims makes it more likely that some will become radical, exponentially increasing your problems.

@Zonoro, you can't bomb all of "ISIS". They operate in several countries and you can't just carpet bomb all those countries.
"Aragorn: [Elvish] Sit down, Legolas."
Image

My treasured creations:
The Oddities, The Four Elementals, Gathering Twilight
The Community Improves Heroes
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:42 pm
Location: A stage (but all the world's a stage)

Re: American Elections

by warbot1000 » Sun May 22, 2016 6:30 am

The Kingmaker wrote:I don't honk any of us understand the point Razor was trying to make and how right he is.

There is only one "Islam", (as opposed to the ~5+ main strands of Christianity) but different areas teach different ideologies and use different parts of the Qu'ran. There are some Imams who believe in the new version of Jihad, and believe in violence and attacking the west. This number is tiny. But because of the outpouring of hatred towards Muslims, young impressionable people go to these Imams, and what they say makes sense. They then become radicalised and go on to plot and sometimes carry out attacks.

Shunning and isolating Muslims makes it more likely that some will become radical, exponentially increasing your problems.

@Zonoro, you can't bomb all of "ISIS". They operate in several countries and you can't just carpet bomb all those countries.

Yeah there is only one islam but there are some divisions in the religion. Core beliefs are usually the same but there are Sunni and Shia muslims and a load of other groups in the religion.

my ideas
http://www.ironhidegames.com/forums/vie ... =15&t=4760
I am master of the elements, student of goku and digimon king
My friends an I fight for good beware of warbot the humanrobot!!

If its not JB its not right!
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:26 pm
Location: a Magical place over the rainbow ENGLAND

Re: American Elections

by AerisDraco » Sun May 22, 2016 12:02 pm

I think Christian schisms are more developed.

Also, Trump: Most Divisive Word of 2016

At any rate, we can never really be sure whether or not Trump is going to do something. He can flip his opinion on a dime, and is, above all else, an opportunist.

And on the matter of religious violence, yes, the Crusades and Inquistion were totally justified. :roll:
KRA is now complete.
Main Topic
User avatar
Moderator
 
Posts: 2500
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Northern Cuba (Miami)

Re: American Elections

by The Kingmaker » Sun May 22, 2016 12:26 pm

Also so many people bring up the ban on Muslim immigration because it is one of his two main policies that he hasn't fully withdrawn from (such as any of the veritable cornucopia of abortion ideas) and The Wall is even more ridiculous to discuss.
"Aragorn: [Elvish] Sit down, Legolas."
Image

My treasured creations:
The Oddities, The Four Elementals, Gathering Twilight
The Community Improves Heroes
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:42 pm
Location: A stage (but all the world's a stage)

Re: American Elections

by warbot1000 » Sun May 22, 2016 12:38 pm

The Kingmaker wrote:Also so many people bring up the ban on Muslim immigration because it is one of his two main policies that he hasn't fully withdrawn from (such as any of the veritable cornucopia of abortion ideas) and The Wall is even more ridiculous to discuss.


Don't get me started on the wall xD.

my ideas
http://www.ironhidegames.com/forums/vie ... =15&t=4760
I am master of the elements, student of goku and digimon king
My friends an I fight for good beware of warbot the humanrobot!!

If its not JB its not right!
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:26 pm
Location: a Magical place over the rainbow ENGLAND

Re: American Elections

by RaZoR LeAf » Sun May 22, 2016 1:18 pm

Zonoro13 wrote:What is stopping ISIS from attacking us now, then? Will they hate us more than before if we ban Muslim immigration? Your argument boils down to "if we keep them out, they will attack us. So let them in." Which sounds ridiculous to me.


It's not a case of 'if we keep them out' it's basic reverse psychology and it happens constantly. Tell a group of petulant children that they aren't allowed in a room, and they will immediately try to get into the room. It's also an outright challenge.
"You're not allowed in our country anymore."
"Oh is that right? Challenge accepted."


Zonoro13 wrote:You've got a strawman in the first bit. A temporary ban on Muslim immigration does not tell American citizens they are not valued just because they are Muslim. It tells them that the actions of radical elements of their religion are justifying a temporary ban on immigration. If a huge terrorist organisation was part of my religion to the extent that ISIS is to Islam, I would wholeheartedly support a ban on members of my own religion from immigrating, because I believe in the safety of American citizens, first and foremost.


So why isn't there a ban on Christians due to the multitude of christian terrorist attacks in the US? Attacks made by pro-lifers always cite God and the Bible as justification for their attacks and bombings of pro-choice people. That's terrorism. It's inciting terror. The Klu Klux Klan are the same. Heck, West Borourgh Baptist Church are certainly on their way to becoming terrorists, they're the most hated organisation in the US considering they justifying EVERYTHING as being god's will. But there is no ban on this religion, simply because the christian majority of the US would never vote to allow it, they would never look beyond their own perspective and say "there are too many hateful christians here as it is, we shouldn't let anymore into the country."

Here's more: http://aattp.org/here-are-8-christian-t ... qual-isis/

Zonoro13 wrote:Good. Let's add insult to injury before we bomb them. It's not like they can hate us any more than they already do.


They certainly can. There are worse forms of terrorism than just blowing people up. Death from explosion is quick. Death from chemical attacks is prolonged agony. If ISIS wanted to hurt the US more, they could certainly do it.

This is disgusting and absurd. The very people who claim to be accepting of Muslims are the first to accept that they are ticking time bombs? Can you not see the hypocrisy? The assumption that well-adjusted, assimilated members of American society can be radicalized just because they are Muslim is about as Islamophobic as it gets. It is an admittance that Islam is an inherently violent religion incompatible with American values.


I live in the UK. I have seen ordinary people who have become radicalised and left to join ISIS on the news all the time. It's a simple fact of what occurs. That's what radicalising is. It has nothing to do with what I think of people and their religious choices, it's a messy bundle of politics, faith, education and desire. Who is in charge and what are they saying, what does the scripture say, what have I been taught, what do I want to do. All it takes is one person to create a spark of distrust and then everything else that occurs around them only helps to fan the flame. You should read up on cases of radicalisation that has occurred in the UK before jumping to conclusions.
Image
Yes it's me
User avatar
Moderator
 
Posts: 2732
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Sun May 22, 2016 4:06 pm

@Warbot
The Muslim ban is on immigration. No one suggested that we should kick out Muslims or ban the religion itself. I believe everyone should have the freedom of religion. You've also got a bit of the No True Scotsman fallacy in your post.

RaZoR LeAf wrote:It's not a case of 'if we keep them out' it's basic reverse psychology and it happens constantly. Tell a group of petulant children that they aren't allowed in a room, and they will immediately try to get into the room. It's also an outright challenge.
"You're not allowed in our country anymore."
"Oh is that right? Challenge accepted."

Yes, a Muslim immigration ban would be ineffective.

RaZoR LeAf wrote:So why isn't there a ban on Christians due to the multitude of christian terrorist attacks in the US? Attacks made by pro-lifers always cite God and the Bible as justification for their attacks and bombings of pro-choice people. That's terrorism. It's inciting terror. The Klu Klux Klan are the same. Heck, West Borourgh Baptist Church are certainly on their way to becoming terrorists, they're the most hated organisation in the US considering they justifying EVERYTHING as being god's will. But there is no ban on this religion, simply because the christian majority of the US would never vote to allow it, they would never look beyond their own perspective and say "there are too many hateful christians here as it is, we shouldn't let anymore into the country."

Here's more: http://aattp.org/here-are-8-christian-t ... qual-isis/

Right, because the Westboro Baptist Church is a violent terrorist organisation, and not just a box of loons who spout hate all day. At least they don't kill people. The KKK as an organised terrorist group hasn't committed murder since 1981.

I do not think Christians immigrating to America increases terrorism by Christians in the US by any meaningful amount. I don't think Muslim immigration to America increases terrorism by Muslims enough to ban said immigration either. If I had reason to believe that banning Muslim immigration would be effective at stopping a large amount of terrorism in the US, then I would support the plan.

Americans against the Tea Party? Does this mean I can link biased sources too? Here's some Breitbart. At least it backs up its points with statistics.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -violence/

RaZoR LeAf wrote:They certainly can. There are worse forms of terrorism than just blowing people up. Death from explosion is quick. Death from chemical attacks is prolonged agony. If ISIS wanted to hurt the US more, they could certainly do it.

Why don't they use chemical weaponry already, then?
RaZoR LeAf wrote:I live in the UK. I have seen ordinary people who have become radicalised and left to join ISIS on the news all the time. It's a simple fact of what occurs. That's what radicalising is. It has nothing to do with what I think of people and their religious choices, it's a messy bundle of politics, faith, education and desire. Who is in charge and what are they saying, what does the scripture say, what have I been taught, what do I want to do. All it takes is one person to create a spark of distrust and then everything else that occurs around them only helps to fan the flame. You should read up on cases of radicalisation that has occurred in the UK before jumping to conclusions.

Do you think there is something inherent about Islam that allows widespread radicalization? How do you think this radicalization should be combated? Should we fight radicalization at its core causes, or should we simply avoid those actions that would trigger more radicalization?
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by Zonoro13 » Thu May 26, 2016 3:30 pm

A crazy week for the election! First, one investigatory group found that Hillary definitely did something wrong. The FBI hasn't yet completed its own investigation.

Next, Bernie agreed to debate Trump for charity. Hillary looks like a fool because she made a deal to do this debate and backed out. Now she's getting cucked by Trump.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
-Terry Pratchett

Is this the latest dank meme? -Pencil
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 5167
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 pm
Location: memes

Re: American Elections

by Manijure » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:36 pm

I feel like bumping this, because it is still clearly relevant.

Regardless of who you support now, we can all agree that much will go down in the months leading up to November. And to think we will know who our president will be in less than four months... shudders
"Carpe diem. Seize the day, boys. Make your lives extraordinary."
User avatar
User
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:27 pm
Location: Somewhere

Previous

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 20 guests