HPMOR (and rationalist literature in general)

[Manijure]

In the tainted depths of the pit of our Discord server, Zonoro and I are at odds (so really, nothing new).

To sum it up, Zonoro is obsessed with a Harry Potter fanfiction called Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, written by Eliezer Yudkowsky, an advocate of friendly artificial intelligence. Upon reading it and incessantly nagging the rest of us to do so as well, he makes the following claim: "If everyone read rationalist literature, evil would not exist. Violence and war would never occur."

I want to hear your thoughts on this. Do you agree or disagree?

[RaZoR LeAf]

How exactly do you define "rationalist literature"?

[Zonoro13]

How exactly do you define "rationalist literature"?

Anything by Yudkowsky, I guess. Lesswrong.com is a starting point.

[RaZoR LeAf]

Emotions are what make us human. Yes there would be no evil if everyone thought rationally, but there would be no good either. No sadness, no happiness, no emotion. Isn't that the plot of Tales of Symphonia?


Edit: I've read the first few chapters. I find the concept of magic more believeable than an eleven year old being that pretentious and rational. Clever concept, but far too obnoxious. There's no warmth and nothing making endearing me to the characters. It's reading more like an article on scientific reasoning than a fantasy tale.

[Zonoro13]

Emotions are what make us human. Yes there would be no evil if everyone thought rationally, but there would be no good either. No sadness, no happiness, no emotion. Isn't that the plot of Tales of Symphonia?


Edit: I've read the first few chapters. I find the concept of magic more believeable than an eleven year old being that pretentious and rational. Clever concept, but far too obnoxious. There's no warmth and nothing making endearing me to the characters. It's reading more like an article on scientific reasoning than a fantasy tale.

Not even the most radical rationalist thinks we should apply decision theory to every facet of our lives. Here's a description of what a more rational world might look like: http://yudkowsky.tumblr.com/post/814472 ... confession

The idea is to increase quality of life, and thus happiness, through a better system of education and government.

On hpmor: your criticisms are somewhat accurate. HJPEV is a clear author-insert and is not a realistic 11 year-old. But the story is not about "what if Harry Potter was a genius". The whole "magic doesn't make sense" arc dies quickly and there is a lot of character development, including Harry. The plot is emotional, and Harry doesn't always act rationally, and gets less pretentious as the story goes on, in my opinion. Also, quirrel is an actually interesting character.

[SealDarklight]

Sounds quite harmless but in reality quite stupid. We would be stone dead and everything you connect might be nothing but zombies. RaZoR is pretty much right about that and btw I think evil and good should exist because it gives emotions and if one of it doesn't exist so doesn't the other. It's like you read a story without a villain and will the story be good?

[Zonoro13]

Sounds quite harmless but in reality quite stupid. We would be stone dead and everything you connect might be nothing but zombies. RaZoR is pretty much right about that and btw I think evil and good should exist because it gives emotions and if one of it doesn't exist so doesn't the other. It's like you read a story without a villain and will the story be good?

A story without conflict might not be interesting, but a world without evil would be a much better world.

You don't have any reasoning or evidence for your points. Why would we be stone dead?

[GeminiSparkSP]

Bruh, My Immortal is where it's at, with a secondary dose of 30Hs.

[Ninja]

Sounds quite harmless but in reality quite stupid. We would be stone dead and everything you connect might be nothing but zombies. RaZoR is pretty much right about that and btw I think evil and good should exist because it gives emotions and if one of it doesn't exist so doesn't the other. It's like you read a story without a villain and will the story be good?

A story without conflict might not be interesting, but a world without evil would be a much better world.

You don't have any reasoning or evidence for your points. Why would we be stone dead?

Zonoro's right that a world without evil would be much better, but sadly, it is an impossibility.

[SealDarklight]

A story without conflict might not be interesting, but a world without evil would be a much better world.

You don't have any reasoning or evidence for your points. Why would we be stone dead?

Well been stone dead im talking about Personality and emotions and you dont feel anything at all about these people because they dont care anything other than obey something. You might have a point

Zonoro's right that a world without evil would be much better, but sadly, it is an impossibility.

Well i can live with good and evil and well this world is both good and evil except this world is inhabbitet By idiots known as human race wich i wish if they kill themselves and be replaced By the new race.

I really need to kill myself im a terrible person for all of you and for myself

[Ninja]

@SealDarklight: Whoa; there's no need to be so sad about everything! Yes, the world is evil, but that doesn't mean that everyone should kill themselves! If you're seriously considering suicide because of that, then you need to talk to someone ASAP.

[magicmetal03]

@SealDarklight: Whoa; there's no need to be so sad about everything! Yes, the world is evil, but that doesn't mean that everyone should kill themselves! If you're seriously considering suicide because of that, then you need to talk to someone ASAP.

Agreed. You have to think positive. Forget about the suicidal thoughts. Try to forget it. Try to make yourself happy by thinking, I don't know, meeting Tats and/or Pencil or Lito or anyother KR developers, or the thought of KR4 or Iron Marines being released and your jolly emotions, can't wait to play it. Whatever you do, don't consider about. Try, just try, to forget about everything and start new. And if everthing else fails, get some help or call the Suicide Hotline like Ninja said.

Anyways, my subjective opinion is that reading HPMOR can cause an effect that makes Zonoro think whatever book he recommends would be read by you, which possibly make him always suggesting books. So I recommend banning him for a while or download a bot that ban words like "HPMOR" or "Rationalist".

[RZRider]

Zonoro's right that a world without evil would be much better, but sadly, it is an impossibility.

Well i can live with good and evil and well this world is both good and evil except this world is inhabbitet By idiots known as human race wich i wish if they kill themselves and be replaced By the new race.

I really need to kill myself im a terrible person for all of you and for myself

Hey, Bro, snap out of it. As a person with a history of deppresion I know how you feel. I have tried to kill myself multiple times. The thing is, it get's better, you FEEL better. I feel better than I have ever been. My advice. Tell someone. NOW. Family,friends, phsyciatrist, anyone you trust. We need people like you, good people. It get's better, I promise.

[Zonoro13]

@seal

I would recommend telling an adult you trust about your feelings.

@magicmetal

Nah we have actual discussions about that stuff on discord.

[SealDarklight]

Nah I'm not gonna kill myself. I always hated myself multiple times and to be honest I do want to have a rival to fight against. You're ideals are kind of ok and flawless but too decent and I might think there is something wrong if I live in this world or I won't think at all. Maybe I would be a real life villain.

You people are nice people and maybe I might make thread when its 2017

[Ninja]

Nah I'm not gonna kill myself. I always hated myself multiple times and to be honest I do want to have a rival to fight against. You're ideals are kind of ok and flawless but too decent and I might think there is something wrong if I live in this world or I won't think at all. Maybe I would be a real life villain.

You people are nice people and maybe I might make thread when its 2017

I only understood about half of that, sorry.